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	<title>Comments on: How Clean is Your Cloud and Telecom?</title>
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	<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/</link>
	<description>All about electronics and circuit design</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2026 17:11:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-27/#comment-1892866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2026 17:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are roughly 3 times more golf courses in the U.S. than there are data centers. 
Golf courses consuming vastly more water nationally. Golf courses consume roughly 30 times more water directly on site (around 531 billion gallons) than data centers do directly for cooling (17.4 billion gallons).
This means that an average golf course consumes 10 times more water than an average data center! 

Combined (Direct + Indirect) Comparison: Even if you bundle a data center&#039;s direct on-site evaporation plus the off-site water evaporated at power plants to feed their electrical load (\sim228 billion gallons total), U.S. golf courses still consume more than double (~2.4x) that total amount.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are roughly 3 times more golf courses in the U.S. than there are data centers.<br />
Golf courses consuming vastly more water nationally. Golf courses consume roughly 30 times more water directly on site (around 531 billion gallons) than data centers do directly for cooling (17.4 billion gallons).<br />
This means that an average golf course consumes 10 times more water than an average data center! </p>
<p>Combined (Direct + Indirect) Comparison: Even if you bundle a data center&#8217;s direct on-site evaporation plus the off-site water evaporated at power plants to feed their electrical load (\sim228 billion gallons total), U.S. golf courses still consume more than double (~2.4x) that total amount.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-27/#comment-1892864</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2026 16:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The water data centres use up is for evaporative air conditioning for the building, not direct cooling for the servers. Most people don&#039;t realise this. Evaporative air conditioning is used simply because it&#039;s cheap, not because it&#039;s necessary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The water data centres use up is for evaporative air conditioning for the building, not direct cooling for the servers. Most people don&#8217;t realise this. Evaporative air conditioning is used simply because it&#8217;s cheap, not because it&#8217;s necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-27/#comment-1892863</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2026 16:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892863</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You cannot deplete water globally. 
You cannot deplete water when you look at local situation near data center.

Evaporative cooling: Water cools datacenter and evaporates into the air and condenses into clouds. Clouds rain water on the earth and comes down again, but at different location (usually few hundred kilometers or miles away from data center). It is a cycle at large scale. 

At local view there can be more water used (and evaporated) than what rains back to area. So the water resources can be depleted. This trends has been going on in many areas in USA for a long time before the data center building boom started.

Closed loop cooling: Piping is filled typically with water + glycol mixture, and that circulates on the pipe system without leaving it for many years. Compared to evaporative cooling, you use same amount of water either for one day cooling or use the same amount of water many  years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You cannot deplete water globally.<br />
You cannot deplete water when you look at local situation near data center.</p>
<p>Evaporative cooling: Water cools datacenter and evaporates into the air and condenses into clouds. Clouds rain water on the earth and comes down again, but at different location (usually few hundred kilometers or miles away from data center). It is a cycle at large scale. </p>
<p>At local view there can be more water used (and evaporated) than what rains back to area. So the water resources can be depleted. This trends has been going on in many areas in USA for a long time before the data center building boom started.</p>
<p>Closed loop cooling: Piping is filled typically with water + glycol mixture, and that circulates on the pipe system without leaving it for many years. Compared to evaporative cooling, you use same amount of water either for one day cooling or use the same amount of water many  years.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-27/#comment-1892856</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2026 16:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1JJXEhFr6o/

Finland&#039;s city-scale energy recycling system captures excess thermal energy from underground and surface data centers and injects it directly into municipal district-heating networks.

How the System Works

• Underground Facilities: Many data centers are built 30 to 100 meters underground in old bomb shelters or abandoned granite mines, using the natural rock for cooling and insulation.
• Heat Recovery &amp; Boosting: Liquid-cooled servers transfer heat into water loops. Specialized heat pump stations—such as those operated by Helen in Helsinki or Fortum in Espoo—raise the captured temperatures to roughly 70–90°C.
• Grid Integration: The heated water is piped into municipal networks to warm homes, businesses, and public buildings, while cooled water is cycled back to the data centers.

Key Impact &amp; Scale

• Helsinki &amp; Espoo: Projects led by tech companies like Microsoft and Google partnering with local utilities supply significant portions of regional heating demand (e.g., meeting up to 40% of demand in areas like Espoo and tens of thousands of homes in Helsinki).
• Emissions Reduction: The system displaces fossil fuels, saving hundreds of thousands of tons of CO₂ annually and significantly cutting heating costs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1JJXEhFr6o/" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1JJXEhFr6o/</a></p>
<p>Finland&#8217;s city-scale energy recycling system captures excess thermal energy from underground and surface data centers and injects it directly into municipal district-heating networks.</p>
<p>How the System Works</p>
<p>• Underground Facilities: Many data centers are built 30 to 100 meters underground in old bomb shelters or abandoned granite mines, using the natural rock for cooling and insulation.<br />
• Heat Recovery &amp; Boosting: Liquid-cooled servers transfer heat into water loops. Specialized heat pump stations—such as those operated by Helen in Helsinki or Fortum in Espoo—raise the captured temperatures to roughly 70–90°C.<br />
• Grid Integration: The heated water is piped into municipal networks to warm homes, businesses, and public buildings, while cooled water is cycled back to the data centers.</p>
<p>Key Impact &amp; Scale</p>
<p>• Helsinki &amp; Espoo: Projects led by tech companies like Microsoft and Google partnering with local utilities supply significant portions of regional heating demand (e.g., meeting up to 40% of demand in areas like Espoo and tens of thousands of homes in Helsinki).<br />
• Emissions Reduction: The system displaces fossil fuels, saving hundreds of thousands of tons of CO₂ annually and significantly cutting heating costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-27/#comment-1892854</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2026 15:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fact check:
A lot of clean water use - false for data centers in Finland
Uses a lot of electricity - true
Warms environment - depends on cooling used, if all waste heat is reused for district heating, on those months the other houses need heating, practically zero extra heating for environment

Is this project able to get the heat resumed is still a question. Some plans for heat reuse fail. There are many successful data center waste heat reuse for district heating projects. They have reduced need to burn lots of fossil fuel to heat up building in the cities.

If no sensible reuse of waste heat that reduces other heat generation, then nearby environment will heat up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact check:<br />
A lot of clean water use &#8211; false for data centers in Finland<br />
Uses a lot of electricity &#8211; true<br />
Warms environment &#8211; depends on cooling used, if all waste heat is reused for district heating, on those months the other houses need heating, practically zero extra heating for environment</p>
<p>Is this project able to get the heat resumed is still a question. Some plans for heat reuse fail. There are many successful data center waste heat reuse for district heating projects. They have reduced need to burn lots of fossil fuel to heat up building in the cities.</p>
<p>If no sensible reuse of waste heat that reduces other heat generation, then nearby environment will heat up.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-27/#comment-1892624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2026 10:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can You Catch the Vapor with a &quot;Condensation Pipe&quot; Method?

​The idea of placing condensation recapture structures above exhaust vents to catch moisture and recycle it back into the system sounds clever, but it runs straight into a mass-balance reality check. 

Once water turns to vapor and mixes with the ambient atmosphere over a massive industrial footprint, its vapor pressure drops drastically. To recapture it, you would need colossal, ultra-cold condenser arrays towering over the facility to pull ambient humidity back out of the air—essentially building an energy-intensive dehumidification plant.

You cannot catch vapor via a simple pipe collection method unless you actively re-cool and condense massive volumes of outdoor air, which would consume more electrical energy (and water) than the system would recover.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can You Catch the Vapor with a &#8220;Condensation Pipe&#8221; Method?</p>
<p>​The idea of placing condensation recapture structures above exhaust vents to catch moisture and recycle it back into the system sounds clever, but it runs straight into a mass-balance reality check. </p>
<p>Once water turns to vapor and mixes with the ambient atmosphere over a massive industrial footprint, its vapor pressure drops drastically. To recapture it, you would need colossal, ultra-cold condenser arrays towering over the facility to pull ambient humidity back out of the air—essentially building an energy-intensive dehumidification plant.</p>
<p>You cannot catch vapor via a simple pipe collection method unless you actively re-cool and condense massive volumes of outdoor air, which would consume more electrical energy (and water) than the system would recover.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-27/#comment-1892623</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2026 10:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892623</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A modern 100 MW to 300 MW hyperscale facility genuinely dumps enough thermal energy to rival a small modular reactor (SMR) or power station. 

The primary reason power plants can use high-pressure steam turbines to generate electricity is temperature quality (Carnot Efficiency), not just raw heat quantity. 

​The Temperature Gap: Power plants burn fossil fuels or split atoms to create superheated, high-pressure steam running at 300°C to 500°C+ under massive pressure (100–200+ bar). That extreme thermal gradient is what allows a steam turbine to spin efficiently.

The Low-Grade Problem: Silicon computer chips will instantly fry if they get anywhere near that hot. They operate safely at internal silicon temperatures of 60°C to 85°C, meaning the exhaust air or liquid cooling loops coming out of a data center are typically sitting at a tepid 35°C to 55°C (and rarely break 65°C even with direct-to-chip liquid cooling). 

According to the Carnot efficiency limit, trying to run a steam turbine or organic Rankine cycle (ORC) on low-grade, sub-100°C waste heat yields an electrical conversion efficiency of only about 3% to 7%. 
Trying to capture a tiny sliver of parasitic power from low-grade heat is economically and mechanically unviable. 

Instead of trying to generate electricity from low-grade heat, modern engineering skips the turbine middleman and routes that warm water directly into district heating networks (like those used in Finland), where it can be used for space heating or domestic hot water at near 100% thermal utility rather than single-digit electrical conversion.

​Industrial Heat Cascading: Rather than trying to step down to electricity via a turbine, engineers step sideways into district heating. By using industrial heat pumps to boost a data center&#039;s 45°C water up to 80°C, cities can use that thermal load directly for municipal district heating grids—completely bypassing the need to burn fossil fuels for local district heat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A modern 100 MW to 300 MW hyperscale facility genuinely dumps enough thermal energy to rival a small modular reactor (SMR) or power station. </p>
<p>The primary reason power plants can use high-pressure steam turbines to generate electricity is temperature quality (Carnot Efficiency), not just raw heat quantity. </p>
<p>​The Temperature Gap: Power plants burn fossil fuels or split atoms to create superheated, high-pressure steam running at 300°C to 500°C+ under massive pressure (100–200+ bar). That extreme thermal gradient is what allows a steam turbine to spin efficiently.</p>
<p>The Low-Grade Problem: Silicon computer chips will instantly fry if they get anywhere near that hot. They operate safely at internal silicon temperatures of 60°C to 85°C, meaning the exhaust air or liquid cooling loops coming out of a data center are typically sitting at a tepid 35°C to 55°C (and rarely break 65°C even with direct-to-chip liquid cooling). </p>
<p>According to the Carnot efficiency limit, trying to run a steam turbine or organic Rankine cycle (ORC) on low-grade, sub-100°C waste heat yields an electrical conversion efficiency of only about 3% to 7%.<br />
Trying to capture a tiny sliver of parasitic power from low-grade heat is economically and mechanically unviable. </p>
<p>Instead of trying to generate electricity from low-grade heat, modern engineering skips the turbine middleman and routes that warm water directly into district heating networks (like those used in Finland), where it can be used for space heating or domestic hot water at near 100% thermal utility rather than single-digit electrical conversion.</p>
<p>​Industrial Heat Cascading: Rather than trying to step down to electricity via a turbine, engineers step sideways into district heating. By using industrial heat pumps to boost a data center&#8217;s 45°C water up to 80°C, cities can use that thermal load directly for municipal district heating grids—completely bypassing the need to burn fossil fuels for local district heat.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-26/#comment-1892485</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2026 23:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[​Closed-Loop Cooling (PCs, Industrial Systems): Using pure distilled water in a cooling loop without corrosion inhibitors (like glycols or specialized biocides/inhibitors) will eventually strip metal from radiators, water blocks, and pumps, leading to metallic contamination, sludge buildup, and component failure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>​Closed-Loop Cooling (PCs, Industrial Systems): Using pure distilled water in a cooling loop without corrosion inhibitors (like glycols or specialized biocides/inhibitors) will eventually strip metal from radiators, water blocks, and pumps, leading to metallic contamination, sludge buildup, and component failure.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-26/#comment-1892484</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2026 22:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Huge 1GW data centers from OpenAI, Meta, SpaceX, Amazon, Google and others were a key issue in the midterms, largely due to concerns over power and water use.

CNBC&#039;s Katie Tarasov visited data centers and spoke to researchers to find out the truth about how data centers use water.

Find the full report: cnb.cx/3Wev5Ga

Video
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1NU6Hoz9yS/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huge 1GW data centers from OpenAI, Meta, SpaceX, Amazon, Google and others were a key issue in the midterms, largely due to concerns over power and water use.</p>
<p>CNBC&#8217;s Katie Tarasov visited data centers and spoke to researchers to find out the truth about how data centers use water.</p>
<p>Find the full report: cnb.cx/3Wev5Ga</p>
<p>Video<br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1NU6Hoz9yS/" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1NU6Hoz9yS/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2012/04/18/how-clean-is-your-cloud-and-telecom/comment-page-26/#comment-1892074</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2026 00:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/blog/?p=10531#comment-1892074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/nov/03/uk-drax-power-station-ai-datacentre?CMP=fb_gu&amp;utm_medium=Social_img&amp;utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1793707425]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/nov/03/uk-drax-power-station-ai-datacentre?CMP=fb_gu&#038;utm_medium=Social_img&#038;utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1793707425" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/nov/03/uk-drax-power-station-ai-datacentre?CMP=fb_gu&#038;utm_medium=Social_img&#038;utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1793707425</a></p>
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