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	<title>Comments on: Remote Powering over communications cabling (part 2)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/</link>
	<description>All about electronics and circuit design</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 01 May 2026 18:15:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1784803</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2022 14:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/?p=178087#comment-1784803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today&#039;s Telegraph Meter
Up through the 80&#039;s there were a lot of current loop circuits over copper wire especially in large cities. Western Union had many of its own copper cable into the larger buildings, local bell companies did too.  If we did not have direct cable into the building we&#039;d order the local bell to connect to the cable we had into their central office out to the customer prem.  Current loop would feed older teletype machines, telex etc.  110VDC at 60 mill and a hard ground.  We would use this meter to check continuity etc.  You could always tell the new field tech when we&#039;d ask for a short on the 42A block or RJ11 etc.  The jacks were never near a phone so we&#039;d ask for a short, the tech would set the phone down and they would use a paper clip etc to give us the short. 110vdc and a hard ground you could hear them yelp over the phone.  Yes it would set you free!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VintageElectronicTestEquipment/permalink/5561684863948660/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today&#8217;s Telegraph Meter<br />
Up through the 80&#8242;s there were a lot of current loop circuits over copper wire especially in large cities. Western Union had many of its own copper cable into the larger buildings, local bell companies did too.  If we did not have direct cable into the building we&#8217;d order the local bell to connect to the cable we had into their central office out to the customer prem.  Current loop would feed older teletype machines, telex etc.  110VDC at 60 mill and a hard ground.  We would use this meter to check continuity etc.  You could always tell the new field tech when we&#8217;d ask for a short on the 42A block or RJ11 etc.  The jacks were never near a phone so we&#8217;d ask for a short, the tech would set the phone down and they would use a paper clip etc to give us the short. 110vdc and a hard ground you could hear them yelp over the phone.  Yes it would set you free!<br />
<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/VintageElectronicTestEquipment/permalink/5561684863948660/" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/groups/VintageElectronicTestEquipment/permalink/5561684863948660/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1638833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2019 14:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/?p=178087#comment-1638833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Introducing Fibre to the Distribution Point (FTTdp) NDD-4100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSX9gMvLHo

See how this fibre-to-copper innovation delivers a superfast, practical and economical alternative to Fibre to the Premise (FTTP). NetComm Wireless’ Fibre to the distribution point (FTTdp) unit (NDD-4100) is a multi-port device that is installed in the distribution pit and engineered to link a single fibre connection to up to four copper lines. The robust water, temperature and pressure-proof NDD-4100 can be remotely activated and managed, is reverse powered from the premises and converts a Gigabit-capable Passive Optical Network (GPON) signal to VDSL2 using existing copper infrastructure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Introducing Fibre to the Distribution Point (FTTdp) NDD-4100<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSX9gMvLHo" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSX9gMvLHo</a></p>
<p>See how this fibre-to-copper innovation delivers a superfast, practical and economical alternative to Fibre to the Premise (FTTP). NetComm Wireless’ Fibre to the distribution point (FTTdp) unit (NDD-4100) is a multi-port device that is installed in the distribution pit and engineered to link a single fibre connection to up to four copper lines. The robust water, temperature and pressure-proof NDD-4100 can be remotely activated and managed, is reverse powered from the premises and converts a Gigabit-capable Passive Optical Network (GPON) signal to VDSL2 using existing copper infrastructure.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1600341</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2018 11:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/?p=178087#comment-1600341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Controller solves voltage drop problem of high impedance, long length power lines: ADI Power by Linear Design Note
https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4460947/Controller-solves-voltage-drop-problem-of-high-impedance--long-length-power-lines--ADI-Power-by-Linear-Design-Note

The LT8710 is a versatile DC/DC controller that supports boost, SEPIC, inverting, or flyback configurations, and is widely used in automotive and industrial systems. The LT8710 includes features that enable use in applications with high impedance power supplies, or where input current must be limited. For example, long power lines in industrial plants and warehouses add significant input source resistance as well as a significant voltage drop from converter to load. This value can change as equipment is relocated, further complicating regulation. Solar panels also have a high impedance input, with a peak power output and a narrow voltage range. This design note demonstrates how the LT8710 can solve the problems of high impedance and current limited input sources, through the example of a lithium-ion battery charger.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Controller solves voltage drop problem of high impedance, long length power lines: ADI Power by Linear Design Note<br />
<a href="https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4460947/Controller-solves-voltage-drop-problem-of-high-impedance--long-length-power-lines--ADI-Power-by-Linear-Design-Note" rel="nofollow">https://www.edn.com/design/analog/4460947/Controller-solves-voltage-drop-problem-of-high-impedance&#8211;long-length-power-lines&#8211;ADI-Power-by-Linear-Design-Note</a></p>
<p>The LT8710 is a versatile DC/DC controller that supports boost, SEPIC, inverting, or flyback configurations, and is widely used in automotive and industrial systems. The LT8710 includes features that enable use in applications with high impedance power supplies, or where input current must be limited. For example, long power lines in industrial plants and warehouses add significant input source resistance as well as a significant voltage drop from converter to load. This value can change as equipment is relocated, further complicating regulation. Solar panels also have a high impedance input, with a peak power output and a narrow voltage range. This design note demonstrates how the LT8710 can solve the problems of high impedance and current limited input sources, through the example of a lithium-ion battery charger.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1594490</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/?p=178087#comment-1594490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.pulspower.com/fileadmin/global/common/Print/White_papers/an45_en.pdf
NEC Class 2: 
Power-limited Circuits max. 8A and 100VA

According to article 725-121 NEC Class 2 circuits are only allowed to be powered 
from a power source with an output power of lower than 100VA and an output 
current of lower than 8A. The power source needs to be listed as an UL 1310 po-
wer supply device or must be approved as a Limited Power Source (LPS) according 
to IEC 60950-1. The NEC Class 2 limits need to be fulfilled even under overload 
or during fault conditions of the unit. Extensive tests and approvals are therefore 
necessary.
NEC Class 2 circuits are considered to be safe from a fire ignition standpoint and 
provide an acceptable protection against electric shock. The benefits of using NEC 
Class 2 circuits are reduced and less expensive requirements regarding wiring me-
thods and over-current protection. Furthermore, the agency testing and approval 
process of the end-application is much easier.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.pulspower.com/fileadmin/global/common/Print/White_papers/an45_en.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.pulspower.com/fileadmin/global/common/Print/White_papers/an45_en.pdf</a><br />
NEC Class 2:<br />
Power-limited Circuits max. 8A and 100VA</p>
<p>According to article 725-121 NEC Class 2 circuits are only allowed to be powered<br />
from a power source with an output power of lower than 100VA and an output<br />
current of lower than 8A. The power source needs to be listed as an UL 1310 po-<br />
wer supply device or must be approved as a Limited Power Source (LPS) according<br />
to IEC 60950-1. The NEC Class 2 limits need to be fulfilled even under overload<br />
or during fault conditions of the unit. Extensive tests and approvals are therefore<br />
necessary.<br />
NEC Class 2 circuits are considered to be safe from a fire ignition standpoint and<br />
provide an acceptable protection against electric shock. The benefits of using NEC<br />
Class 2 circuits are reduced and less expensive requirements regarding wiring me-<br />
thods and over-current protection. Furthermore, the agency testing and approval<br />
process of the end-application is much easier.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1594489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/?p=178087#comment-1594489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Using PolySwitch PPTC Devices for LPS Compliance
in Li-ion and LiP Cell Battery Applications
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/application_notes/littelfuse_using_polyswitch_pptc_devices_for_lps_compliance_in_li_ion_and_lip_cell_battery_application_note.pdf.pdf

Battery  packs  marked  “LPS”  are  safe  for  consumers  to  
replace   and   access,   negating   the   need   for   specialized   
electrical  technicians  to  perform  basic  battery  maintenance  
procedures. Conversely, if the source is not a Limited Power 
Source, the live voltage on that circuit must be contained in 
an  environment  where  a  tool  is  needed  to  access  a  secured  
panel.  The  benefit  of  an  LPS  circuit  is  that  connectors  and  
cables connected to the active circuit may require fewer tests 
and eliminate the need for certification.

A  key  step  in  meeting  LPS  requirements  is  by  testing  at  
the  maximum  power  point  load.  The  value  of  this  load  is  
determined  prior  to  commencement  of  the  tests.  To  pass  
the LPS test, the source should be tested under the normal 
load,  at  the  maximum  current  load  fault  condition  and  at  
the maximum power load fault condition.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using PolySwitch PPTC Devices for LPS Compliance<br />
in Li-ion and LiP Cell Battery Applications<br />
<a href="http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/application_notes/littelfuse_using_polyswitch_pptc_devices_for_lps_compliance_in_li_ion_and_lip_cell_battery_application_note.pdf.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/application_notes/littelfuse_using_polyswitch_pptc_devices_for_lps_compliance_in_li_ion_and_lip_cell_battery_application_note.pdf.pdf</a></p>
<p>Battery  packs  marked  “LPS”  are  safe  for  consumers  to<br />
replace   and   access,   negating   the   need   for   specialized<br />
electrical  technicians  to  perform  basic  battery  maintenance<br />
procedures. Conversely, if the source is not a Limited Power<br />
Source, the live voltage on that circuit must be contained in<br />
an  environment  where  a  tool  is  needed  to  access  a  secured<br />
panel.  The  benefit  of  an  LPS  circuit  is  that  connectors  and<br />
cables connected to the active circuit may require fewer tests<br />
and eliminate the need for certification.</p>
<p>A  key  step  in  meeting  LPS  requirements  is  by  testing  at<br />
the  maximum  power  point  load.  The  value  of  this  load  is<br />
determined  prior  to  commencement  of  the  tests.  To  pass<br />
the LPS test, the source should be tested under the normal<br />
load,  at  the  maximum  current  load  fault  condition  and  at<br />
the maximum power load fault condition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1594488</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/?p=178087#comment-1594488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is a Limited Power Source? 
http://power-topics.blogspot.com/2012/06/what-is-limited-power-source.html

There are many technical details regarding Limited Power Sources (often referred to as an LPS) covered in the IEC60950-1 safety standard, involving a variety of applications

What is, and why are Limited Power Sources important? Simply put, if a piece of electrical or electronic equipment supplying DC power to external devices is to be installed by a third party, such as an electrician, the risk of wiring fires &amp; electrical shock needs to be minimized. That electrician will not be expected to know all the potential fault scenarios and use the appropriate cable thicknesses and insulation to cover those hazards. By using a Limited Power Source, the system wiring can also be reduced, saving cost.

If a Limited Power Source is used, then the electrician’s job is simplified, even if there is a (single) fault inside of the power supply. 

The conditions for a “Limited Power Source” AC-DC power supply are:

1. For a power supply rated at 30V or less, the following must be met even with a single fault condition:
    a. The output current must not exceed 8A
    b. The output power must not exceed 100W
2. For a power supply rated above 30V, but not exceeding 60V:
    a. The output current must not exceed 150 ÷ Vout
    b. The output power must not exceed 100W

60950-1 Limited Power Source (LPS) Rated Power Supplies
https://en.globtek.com/news/60950-1-limited-power-source-lps-rated-power-supplies

A Limited Power Source (LPS) as defined in 60950, is a secondary circuit with an open circuit output voltage, UOC, not exceeding the SELV circuit limits of 42.4 VPEAK or 60 VDC. The maximum apparent power, S, available on the output under any load condition, and the maximum fault current, ISC, available on the output under any load condition, (including a short-circuit), are limited to magnitudes not likely to cause ignition under fault condition in components mounted on, or circuits constructed from, suitably rated materials.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is a Limited Power Source?<br />
<a href="http://power-topics.blogspot.com/2012/06/what-is-limited-power-source.html" rel="nofollow">http://power-topics.blogspot.com/2012/06/what-is-limited-power-source.html</a></p>
<p>There are many technical details regarding Limited Power Sources (often referred to as an LPS) covered in the IEC60950-1 safety standard, involving a variety of applications</p>
<p>What is, and why are Limited Power Sources important? Simply put, if a piece of electrical or electronic equipment supplying DC power to external devices is to be installed by a third party, such as an electrician, the risk of wiring fires &amp; electrical shock needs to be minimized. That electrician will not be expected to know all the potential fault scenarios and use the appropriate cable thicknesses and insulation to cover those hazards. By using a Limited Power Source, the system wiring can also be reduced, saving cost.</p>
<p>If a Limited Power Source is used, then the electrician’s job is simplified, even if there is a (single) fault inside of the power supply. </p>
<p>The conditions for a “Limited Power Source” AC-DC power supply are:</p>
<p>1. For a power supply rated at 30V or less, the following must be met even with a single fault condition:<br />
    a. The output current must not exceed 8A<br />
    b. The output power must not exceed 100W<br />
2. For a power supply rated above 30V, but not exceeding 60V:<br />
    a. The output current must not exceed 150 ÷ Vout<br />
    b. The output power must not exceed 100W</p>
<p>60950-1 Limited Power Source (LPS) Rated Power Supplies<br />
<a href="https://en.globtek.com/news/60950-1-limited-power-source-lps-rated-power-supplies" rel="nofollow">https://en.globtek.com/news/60950-1-limited-power-source-lps-rated-power-supplies</a></p>
<p>A Limited Power Source (LPS) as defined in 60950, is a secondary circuit with an open circuit output voltage, UOC, not exceeding the SELV circuit limits of 42.4 VPEAK or 60 VDC. The maximum apparent power, S, available on the output under any load condition, and the maximum fault current, ISC, available on the output under any load condition, (including a short-circuit), are limited to magnitudes not likely to cause ignition under fault condition in components mounted on, or circuits constructed from, suitably rated materials.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tomi Engdahl</title>
		<link>https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2018/06/13/remote-powering-over-communications-cabling-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1594431</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomi Engdahl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2018 10:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epanorama.net/newepa/?p=178087#comment-1594431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://ce.superioressex.com/uploadedFiles/docs/pdf/technical-guidelines/TG31-Telephone-WireCable.pdf

Telephone cable is usually thought of only as a communication medium operating at a 
normal 48 Vdc level. But telephone cable is regularly used by telephone operating companies 
to supply power to remote telephony equipment such as: PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) 
repeaters, FDM (Frequency Division Modulation) repeaters, telegraph and various types of 
control circuits.  
The normal talk battery voltage is regularly exceeded in the case of long subscriber loops 
utilizing loop extenders and on dial long line circuits which operate in the 70 to 100 Vdc 
range. For these applications, the referenced devices are generally current limited to 
approximately 150 milliamps. In all such cases, normal telephone industry practice usually 
limits pair-to-ground applied voltage to 150 Vdc, and pair-to-pair voltage is usually limited to 
300 Vdc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://ce.superioressex.com/uploadedFiles/docs/pdf/technical-guidelines/TG31-Telephone-WireCable.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ce.superioressex.com/uploadedFiles/docs/pdf/technical-guidelines/TG31-Telephone-WireCable.pdf</a></p>
<p>Telephone cable is usually thought of only as a communication medium operating at a<br />
normal 48 Vdc level. But telephone cable is regularly used by telephone operating companies<br />
to supply power to remote telephony equipment such as: PCM (Pulse Code Modulation)<br />
repeaters, FDM (Frequency Division Modulation) repeaters, telegraph and various types of<br />
control circuits.<br />
The normal talk battery voltage is regularly exceeded in the case of long subscriber loops<br />
utilizing loop extenders and on dial long line circuits which operate in the 70 to 100 Vdc<br />
range. For these applications, the referenced devices are generally current limited to<br />
approximately 150 milliamps. In all such cases, normal telephone industry practice usually<br />
limits pair-to-ground applied voltage to 150 Vdc, and pair-to-pair voltage is usually limited to<br />
300 Vdc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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