What annoys me today in marketing and media that too often today then talking on hi-fi, science is replaced by bizarre belief structures and marketing fluff, leading to a decades-long stagnation of the audiophile domain. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Hi-fi world is filled by pseudoscience, dogma and fruitloopery to the extent that it resembles a fundamentalist religion. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
Business for Engineers: Marketers Lie article points tout that marketing tells lies — falsehoods — things that serve to convey a false impression. Marketing’s purpose is to determining how the product will be branded, positioned, and sold. It seems that there too many snake oil rubbish products marketed in the name of hifi. It is irritating to watch the stupid people in the world be fooled.
In EEVblog #29 – Audiophile Audiophoolery video David L. Jones (from EEVBlog) cuts loose on the Golden Ear Audiophiles and all their Audiophoolery snake oil rubbish. The information presented in Dave’s unique non-scripted overly enthusiastic style! He’s an enthusiastic chap, but couldn’t agree more with many of the opinions he expressed: Directional cables, thousand dollar IEC power cables, and all that rubbish. Monster Cable gets mostered. Note what he says right at the end: “If you pay ridiculous money for these cable you will hear a difference, but don’t expect your friends to”. If you want to believe, you will.
My points on hifi-nonsense:
One of the tenets of audiophile systems is that they are assembled from components, allegedly so that the user can “choose” the best combination. This is pretty largely a myth. The main advantage of component systems is that the dealer can sell ridiculously expensive cables, hand-knitted by Peruvian virgins and soaked in snake oil, to connect it all up. Say goodbye to the noughties: Yesterday’s hi-fi biz is BUSTED, bro article asks are the days of floorstanders and separates numbered? If traditional two-channel audio does have a future, then it could be as the preserve of high resolution audio. Sony has taken the industry lead in High-Res Audio.
HIFI Cable Humbug and Snake oil etc. blog posting rightly points out that there is too much emphasis placed on spending huge sums of money on HIFI cables. Most of what is written about this subject is complete tripe. HIFI magazines promote myths about the benefits of all sorts of equipment. I am as amazed as the writer that that so called audiophiles and HIFI journalists can be fooled into thinking that very expensive speaker cables etc. improve performance. I generally agree – most of this expensive interconnect cable stuff is just plain overpriced.
I can agree that in analogue interconnect cables there are few cases where better cables can really result in cleaner sound, but usually getting any noticeable difference needs that the one you compare with was very bad yo start with (clearly too thin speaker wires with resistance, interconnect that picks interference etc..) or the equipment in the systems are so that they are overly-sensitive to cable characteristics (generally bad equipment designs can make for example cable capacitance affect 100 times or more than it should). Definitely too much snake oil. Good solid engineering is all that is required (like keep LCR low, Teflon or other good insulation, shielding if required, proper gauge for application and the distance traveled). Geometry is a factor but not in the same sense these yahoos preach and deceive.
In digital interconnect cables story is different than on those analogue interconnect cables. Generally in digital interconnect cables the communication either works, does not work or sometimes work unreliably. The digital cable either gets the bits to the other end or not, it does not magically alter the sound that goes through the cable. You need to have active electronics like digital signal processor to change the tone of the audio signal traveling on the digital cable, cable will just not do that.
But this digital interconnect cables characteristics has not stopped hifi marketers to make very expensive cable products that are marketed with unbelievable claims. Ethernet has come to audio world, so there are hifi Ethernet cables. How about 500 dollar Ethernet cable? That’s ridiculous. And it’s only 1.5 meters. Then how about $10,000 audiophile ethernet cable? Bias your dielectrics with the Dielectric-Bias ethernet cable from AudioQuest: “When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently, a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio.” I see this as complete marketing crap speak. It seems that they’re made for gullible idiots. No professional would EVER waste money on those cables. Audioquest even produces iPhone sync cables in similar price ranges.
HIFI Cable insulators/supports (expensive blocks that keep cables few centimeters off the floor) are a product category I don’t get. They typically claim to offer incredible performance as well as appealing appearance. Conventional cable isolation theory holds that optimal cable performance can be achieved by elevating cables from the floor in an attempt to control vibrations and manage static fields. Typical cable elevators are made from electrically insulating materials such as wood, glass, plastic or ceramics. Most of these products claim superior performance based upon the materials or methods of elevation. I don’t get those claims.
Along with green magic markers on CDs and audio bricks is another item called the wire conditioner. The claim is that unused wires do not sound the same as wires that have been used for a period of time. I don’t get this product category. And I don’t believe claims in the line like “Natural Quartz crystals along with proprietary materials cause a molecular restructuring of the media, which reduces stress, and significantly improves its mechanical, acoustic, electric, and optical characteristics.” All sounds like just pure marketing with no real benefits.
CD no evil, hear no evil. But the key thing about the CD was that it represented an obvious leap from earlier recording media that simply weren’t good enough for delivery of post-produced material to the consumer to one that was. Once you have made that leap, there is no requirement to go further. The 16 bits of CD were effectively extended to 18 bits by the development of noise shaping, which allows over 100dB signal to noise ratio. That falls a bit short of the 140dB maximum range of human hearing, but that has never been a real goal. If you improve the digital media, the sound quality limiting problem became the transducers; the headphones and the speakers.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article says that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. I can agree with this. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article makes good points on design, DSPs and the debunking of traditional hi-fi. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Legacy loudspeakers are omni-directional at low frequencies, but as frequency rises, the radiation becomes more directional until at the highest frequencies the sound only emerges directly forwards. Thus to enjoy the full frequency range, the listener has to sit in the so-called sweet spot. As a result legacy loudspeakers with sweet spots need extensive room treatment to soak up the deficient off-axis sound. New tools that can change speaker system designs in the future are omni-directional speakers and DSP-based room correction. It’s a scenario ripe for “disruption”.
Computers have become an integrated part of many audio setups. Back in the day integrated audio solutions in PCs had trouble earning respect. Ode To Sound Blaster: Are Discrete Audio Cards Still Worth the Investment? posting tells that it’s been 25 years since the first Sound Blaster card was introduced (a pretty remarkable feat considering the diminished reliance on discrete audio in PCs) and many enthusiasts still consider a sound card an essential piece to the PC building puzzle. It seems that in general onboard sound is finally “Good Enough”, and has been “Good Enough” for a long time now. For most users it is hard to justify the high price of special sound card on PC anymore. There are still some PCs with bad sound hardware on motherboard and buttload of cheap USB adapters with very poor performance. However, what if you want the best sound possible, the lowest noise possible, and don’t really game or use the various audio enhancements? You just want a plain-vanilla sound card, but with the highest quality audio (products typically made for music makers). You can find some really good USB solutions that will blow on-board audio out of the water for about $100 or so.
Although solid-state technology overwhelmingly dominates today’s world of electronics, vacuum tubes are holding out in two small but vibrant areas. Some people like the sound of tubes. The Cool Sound of Tubes article says that a commercially viable number of people find that they prefer the sound produced by tubed equipment in three areas: musical-instrument (MI) amplifiers (mainly guitar amps), some processing devices used in recording studios, and a small but growing percentage of high-fidelity equipment at the high end of the audiophile market. Keep those filaments lit, Design your own Vacuum Tube Audio Equipment article claims that vacuum tubes do sound better than transistors (before you hate in the comments check out this scholarly article on the topic). The difficulty is cost; tube gear is very expensive because it uses lots of copper, iron, often point-to-point wired by hand, and requires a heavy metal chassis to support all of these parts. With this high cost and relative simplicity of circuitry (compared to modern electronics) comes good justification for building your own gear. Maybe this is one of the last frontiers of do-it-yourself that is actually worth doing.
1,887 Comments
Tomi Engdahl says:
Should those expensive hifi ethernet cables viewed more like art product than real technical solution for anything?
Fancy looking artesanal products sold with a made up story why they are better and maybe even sold with help of real life art performance “cable comparison” (pitching and some magic tricks to make you believe)
Pssst.. hey..look…the emperor…he’s got no clothes
Tomi Engdahl says:
AUDIOPHILES aren’t always sure they’re audiophiles, like Matt the recording engineer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd5Vz2TLcE8
I jumped on the NYC subway to make it out to Rockaway Beach to visit Matt Walsh’s Oceanus studio, I had a great time!
Video comments:
If you’re being interviewed by Steve at your own place, you’re an audiophile already!
“If someone give me a ton of money .. I would get my room treated” – Definitely NOT an audiophile
A friend of mine is a classical composer. My favorite recordings of his work are when there’s just a stereo mic near the front seats of the auditorium – recorded live. No mixing, compression or anything. There’s some audience noise too, which I like.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Truth about RCA signal cables
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOagVDZLQnA
Here we discuss the circumstances of when it is appropriate to use a twisted pair RCA cable vs a Coaxial RCA cable.
Video comments:
The only problem is that nobody lists what kind of RCA input or output they have on their headunit or amplifier.
Take an ohm meter (DMM) and check the resistance from the battery ground connection on amplifier to the RCA outer ring on amplifier (with everything unplugged from amplifier). If you have less than 100 ohms it is a single-ended input.
Thanks Mr. D’Amore for the quality information. Always good to hear it from a quality engineer rather than from someone who thinks they know what they are talking about. Love all the new product you are developing and can’t wait to see more.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/the-truth-about-interconnects-and-cables
https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/intere.html
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.atlascables.com/design-objectives.html
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/do-interconnects-make-a-difference.2318352/
I’m not sure you’ll necessarily get anything different here! For what it’s worth I’m firmly in the 1st camp but I will spend a little more on something that is well made and will last.
But seriously, over the years, I’ve compared a number of different interconnects, so I’ll offer my experience. Back in the day, audio equipment used to come with truly horrible interconnects included “for free”, and you definitely can improve on the worst nasty cheap ones. One of the few properly blind tests I’ve done, 30 years ago, was between a cheap nasty interconnect and one of the fancy interconnects that were then making their appearances. The test was so blind that I didn’t know which piece of equipment was being swapped – and there was a clear improvement.
In the years since then, I’ve listened to probably a few dozen different interconnects, and I did some comparisons last year when setting up more gear and choosing new cabling. And I’ve never been able to hear any difference between any two properly-made cables. So as long as an interconnect avoids the flaws in the super cheap “free” ones (very thin copper, possibly aluminium because it’s cheaper than copper, no shielding, poor connections… whatever) I don’t think there’s any difference. For my current interconnects, I ended up making my own using cheap Van Damme cable.
Tomi Engdahl says:
The Null Tester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyWt3kANA3Q
Some audio enthusiasts believe there may be more to audio fidelity than is currently known, and they insist that signal wires and other audio devices can measure the same yet sound different. This video explains what a null test is and how it works, then uses a custom made Null Tester device to compare RCA wires ranging in price from a few dollars to $700. Rather than measure wires directly, the Null Tester isolates all differences between signals passing through the wires, then lets you assess and hear only that difference.
To avoid making this video even longer I didn’t talk about *why* people believe they hear a difference with wires, even when no difference exists. These articles address that:
http://ethanwiner.com/perception.htm
http://ethanwiner.com/believe.html
If you already know what a null test is and does, you can skip the explanation and go directly to the live portion of this video where the wires are compared at 18 minutes 23 seconds.
It’s difficult to have a technical discussion in YouTube comments, so for questions or extended comments, please post in the Audio Central section of my Audio Expert forum:
http://the-audio-expert.freeforums.net/
This article in audioXpress magazine explains more about the tester’s design, and includes the schematic for the core section of the tester:
https://audioxpress.com/article/you-can-diy-building-a-null-tester-device
One big feature of null testing is you can use music as a source signal. Many audio enthusiasts wrongly believe that sine waves aren’t good enough for testing audio gear. However, a very long time ago French mathematician Jean Baptiste Fourier (1768–1830) proved that music (and indeed all sound) is comprised entirely of sine waves. So by using music as a test signal, people suspicious of objective measuring with sine wave test tones lose an important argument!
I spent $3,500 over two years designing and building the Null Tester shown in Photo 3 and Photo 4. I thought initially it would be a commercial product that could compete with $10,000 analyzers but sell for half the cost. So I designed a full-featured version containing a built-in multi-tone signal generator, 24 dB/octave sweepable high- and lowpass filters to exclude the frequency extremes when needed, A-Weighting, input padding to accommodate power amps up to 5,000 W, and much more.
Alas, once the unit was completed I realized that even a teensy amount of phase shift precludes getting a usefully deep null. That means it wouldn’t be feasible to compare preamps, or power amps, or most other common audio devices, unless complex variable phase compensation was also added. D’oh! I should have built and tested a simple breadboard version first. Fortunately, I knew that an analog null test could compare signal wires, even if nothing else, and that alone was worth doing. So I reduced the concept to that much simpler goal, and it was a success.
The Completed Tester
Once the reduced Null Tester was completed, I made a video to demonstrate the device in operation. The first part of the video explains all about null testing in detail, then the demonstration portion compares three inexpensive wires plus a $700 “boutique” wire. I don’t mind giving away the ending: All four wires were proven to pass audio identically down to a level below –110 dB. In fact, I didn’t think to make this important point in the video: The Null Tester’s inherent noise floor is –110 dB, but our ears can discern the presence of music and speech as soft as 20 dB below the noise. When the Null Tester is set for the deepest null, no music can be heard at all. That means the null is actually 130 dB down, or even more, not “merely” 110 dB. I wish I had thought to make that point where I show music being nulled out completely in the video!
Even though my grand plan to start a company selling this unique audio testing method didn’t pan out, I still consider the project a success.
Tomi Engdahl says:
The AES “Damn Lies” video explains how audio devices are spec’d and measured:
AES Damn Lies Workshop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvireu2SGZM
This is a video version of my workshop “Lies, Damn Lies, and Audio Gear Specs” from the October 2013 AES show in New York City. Panelists are Ethan Winer, Mike Rivers, Scott Dorsey, and David Moran. This video explains how the fidelity of audio equipment is assessed and measured, and is an offshoot of my book The Audio Expert
The AES “Audio Myths” video dispels many common myths about audio and hearing:
Audio Myths Workshop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
This is a video version of my Audio Myths workshop from the October 2009 AES show in New York City. Because of a few music examples I used, this video is blocked in some countries.
Tomi Engdahl says:
SPEAKER CABLES: Science or Snake Oil
by Nelson Pass
Technical
https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil/
Speaker Builder, 2/1980
AUDIOPHILES RECENTLY BEGAN re-examining the performance of every link in the audio playback chain, and before long their attention turned to the lowly loudspeaker cable. In response to demand, a number of companies are producing or distributing new and exotic cables claimed to improve audio power transmission from amplifier to speaker. Pointing to lower resistance and inductance, proponents of the newer cables insist they sound significantly better (“better than an expander!”); however, the subject is controversial, and some hi-fi notables claim performance increase is negligible and the higher capacitance of some new cables can cause amplifier instability and damage.1-4
Neither view is completely correct: the new cables are neither panacea nor placebo, but components whose characteristics must be evaluated in the context of their usage. Hoping to shed some light on the subject, I obtained samples of various cables, performed a number of tests, and drew a few conclusions.
Almost everyone seems to agree that ideally the amplifier should be so intimately coupled with the loudspeaker that the cable can cause no power loss or distortion. This corresponds to a wire having no resistance, inductance, or capacitance, which in real life translates to an infinitely short cable. I treat this premise as fundamental, because in general it results in the best performance. (It may not do so in some specific situations; for example, one could imagine a special case where some resistance or inductance might improve the sound.)
Regardless of the cable type, the effects it introduces to a signal are proportional to its length: the shorter the cable, the more intimate the connection between amplifier and loudspeaker. Subtle differences between cable types become more dramatic with increasing length and shrink toward zero as the cable gets shorter; thus the audiophile whose amplifiers sit close to his speakers need be less concerned than he whose cables are 40 feet long. To this end, some manufacturers have installed amplifiers within their loudspeakers, exchanging speaker cable problems for preamp ones; commercial sound distribution systems have resorted to higher voltages, which improve transmission much like the high voltage utility lines which carry power many miles.
Researchers have chiefly concentrated on the cable’s inductance and resistance, for they impede the flow of electrons between the amplifier and the loudspeaker. Resistance causes loss at all frequencies while inductance causes loss proportional to the frequency. Capacitance has not usually been considered significant because its values do not impinge upon the audio band. However, we will see later that it may sometimes important.
The new kinds of cable seek to reduce resistance and/or inductance and thus improve the amplifierspeaker connection. They fall into two categories: multistrand twin lead of various gauges (lamp or “zip” cord being an example) and low inductance – high capacitance coaxial or interwoven types. Their measured performance also falls into two categories, 0-100kHz effects and 100kHz – 40MHz effects, which for convenience I will treat separately. My analysis was greatly simplified by the fact that within the two cable categories performances were very similar; indeed, many of the cables were virtually indentical at higher frequencies.
With this much information, we might think we have the subject nailed down. However, we could easily install the finest amplifiers, cables, and terminating impedances and achieve 100 times the distortion of the amplifier alone. Loose, dirty, or oxidized connections can, while measuring well with an ohmmeter, cause high amounts of harmonic and intermodulation distortion. When high distortion occurs during an amplifier checkout at Threshold one of the first things we do is replace or tighten the cable from the amplifier to the load; we have thus cured many “defective” amplifiers.
Copper and aluminum oxidize quickly and oils from our fingers find their way to the conductor surfaces, causing poor contact; so on more than one occasion the dramatic improvement provided by an exotic cable has merely demonstrated the extremely poor quality of the previous cable’s long neglected connections. Wire connections can age, and anyone wishing to accurately evaluate the newer cable’s improved quality should first renew the contacts on his current set. Banana plugs and five-way binding posts make excellent connectors as long as they are kept clean; however, while the connector’s plated surface resists corrosion, the wire to the connector interface can become bad and should be periodically checked, especially if it is subject to motion.
OPINIONS
At this point many audiophiles are wondering, “Where are the listening tests?” I have listened to these cables on a variety of amplifiers (mostly my own) and loudspeakers, including Magneplanar Tympani 1 D’s, MG II A’s, modified Dayton Wright XG 8 MK III’s (as shown in Fig. 6) Cabasses; I have also heard some examples on Dahlquist and Snell loudspeakers.
Frankly, I found it difficult to assess the results except at the extremes of performance. For 10 foot lengths with properly terminated cables and speakers with inductive high frequency characteristics, the differences between low inductance cable and twin conductor are extremely subtle and subject to question. With a low output inductance amplifier and a Heil tweeter (whose impedance is a nearly perfect 6ohm resistive) the difference was discernible as a slightly but not unpleasant softening of the highest frequencies. Fulton or Monster cables were a clear improvement over 24 or even 18 gauge, though a little less subtle than I would have expected, leading me to believe that the effort associated with heavier cables pays off in bass response and in apparent midrange definition, especially at crossover frequencies. The worst case load, the modified Dayton Wright electrostatics, presented some interesting paradoxes: the extremely low impedance involved showed the greatest differences between all the types of cables. However, the best sound cables were not necessarily electrically the best because several amplifiers preferred the highest resistance cable. In one case, I had to use 24 gauge cable to prevent tripping the amplifier’s protection circuitry.
CONCLUSIONS
Who am I to dispute the feelings of audiophiles who, evaluating any cable in the context of program source, amplifier, speaker, and listening room, decide they can hear the difference? A few guidelines have emerged here, but the final judgment belongs to the user. All the special cables mentioned worked well on the test bench and, given the assumption that series impedance should be minimized, all of them work better than 16 gauge wire. If, like many audiophiles, you have spent a small (or large) fortune on your hi-fi system, money spent for high quality cables and connectors is a reasonable investment.
Tomi Engdahl says:
http://www.tonestack.net/articles/speaker-building/speaker-cables-facts-and-myths.html
Speaker cables: do they make a difference?
(Myths and pseudo-scientific theories about speaker cables from a rational viewpoint)
Myths and pseudo-scientific theories about speaker cables.
Testability and characteristics of human hearing.
TINA simulation of an amplifier-cable-speaker system.
I have a feeling that the No. 1 of myths in audio technology is connected to speaker cables. The core of the misconception is that expensive and exotic audiophile cables transmit the audio signal in a different way and have a better sound than conventional speaker wires (zip cords).
speaker cable
Speaker cable confusion – Much ado about nothing?
Exotic audiophile speaker cable companies do everything to deceive people. And the lack of electronic and acoustical knowledge of most customers gives straight way to these pseudoscientific misconceptions. Some are really ridiculous, but the game is not for fun, because who wouldn’t want to get the most benefit with minimal work? For this, the speaker cable business seems a good opportunity. This kind of business is very far from any kind of accountability and responsibility.
In addition to this, myths are kept alive by the audiophile media. Looking for properties in a cable like “dynamics”, or a “tone character” shows very strong ignorance in this field. Audiophile cable tests over the net are mostly nothing but disguised advertisements.
Hi-end (audiophile) audio cable companies have expensive solutions to problems that don’t exist in reality. Their business model is based on willful ignorance: ignoring the facts and proved models of modern sciences like high speed signal transmission or psychoacoustics.
Of course, cables do make a difference, but the reason for the difference is not their exotic structure or the choice of an exotic material. The only difference what people can hear is caused by the resistance of the cable. And don’t forget that the speaker’s voice coil contains several meters long conventional copper wire. Not to mention the wires in the amplifier…
Some of the most popular cable myths and marketing lies:
Wire material has to be expensive and special
Oxygen-free copper, copper with silver plating is better for audio than plain copper.
Nonlinear distortion, diode rectifier effects in copper wires.
Unusual wire or cable structure for reducing skin effect or for ultra low inductance
Waveform dispersion and time based errors due to varying velocity of propagation in the audio band
Some really crazy…
There are some very crazy ideas: cable “break in”, copper wire demagnetization, directional speaker cables…
And the facts:
Wire material doesn’t have to be expensive: copper is a cheap and good conductor. And what really matters is the resistance of the wire, which has to be below a limit and this limit depends on the speaker’s impedance.
Skin effect is not important in the audio range.
Nonlinear distortion nonsense: Bad connectors may cause distortion and not wires. And if the monocrystal theory would be true, then switches and connectors would stop working.
Varying velocity of propagation nonsense: cables don’t alter arrival times and don’t cause waveform dispersion in the audio band up to five kilometers (3 miles). At this length any cable’s frequency response probably will be far from flat in the audio band. The mathematical condition for distortion-free transmission in very long cables (long is more than 5 kilometers!) is known as the Heaviside condition named after Heaviside who solved the problem of long telephone lines in 1887!
The material of the insulation doesn’t affect the sound quality, even PVC works well for audio.
Over a certain length cable inductance begin to attenuate high frequencies. The maximum recommended length depends on speaker impedance and cable design (inductance per meter). For zip cords and 4 Ohm speakers the maximum recommended length is about 10 meters. For 8 Ohm speakers this is about 20 meters!
For humans with good hearing the Just-Noticeable Level Difference can be as small as 0.3 dB for a pure sine wave. For other types of signals the threshold is higher. In addition, the human ear is extremely insensitive to amplitude changes at very low and high frequencies. If we accept, that the maximum amplitude error caused by the cable can be 0.3 dB, then the cable will be totally inaudible. (For those who want to gain deeper insight into human hearing research I recommend books from Eberhard Zwicker and Floyd E. Toole.)
In order to understand how the cable affects the signal coming from the amplifier, we have to analyze the electric model of the speaker cable (equivalent circuit, RLC model). In the model, Z represents the frequency-dependent impedance of the speaker cabinet, which will play a big role later.
In speaker cables, the propagation of the electromagnetic wave and transmission line (TL) effects are negligible in the audio range up to a few hundred meters, however, resonances due to wave reflections can negatively affect the stability of high bandwidth amplifiers even at smaller distances. For example, in a 10 meter long cable the first quarter-wave resonance (fundamental resonance) is close enough to the operating range of high-bandwidth amplifiers. Fortunately, 99% of the power amps have built-in protection and we do not have to deal with this phenomenon.
What is missing from the model is the skin effect. Fortunately, in loudspeaker cables the skin effect is negligible in the audio frequency range. For example, the resistance at 20 kHz of a wire with 1.5 mm2 cross-section will be 12% higher than the DC resistance due to the skin effect. The skin effect also has an interesting side effect: the self-induction of the cable is reduced. (For very long cables, inductance causes greater high frequency loss than the skin effect).
There is a widespread myth that cables can be characterized by their frequency response, but cables have no such property as frequency response. The frequency response of any cable depends on the output resistance of the voltage source and on the resistance or impedance of the load. Solid state amps have low output impedance, so its not an issue, but the response may change due to a different speaker.
The capacitance, inductance and resistance of the cable is directly proportional to the length of the cable. By increasing the cross-section, the resistance drops proportionally, the capacitance slightly increases and the inductance slightly decreases.
The capacitance is a secondary parameter for speaker cables. Some facts about cable capacitance:
Conventional zip-cord speaker wires have a specific (distributed) capacitance of 70 pF/m to 170 pF/m. Interwoven, ribbon or coaxial audiophile cables have much higher capacitance and can be as high as 2000 pF/m.
The capacitance of standard two conductor cables have no effect on the frequency response of class AB solid state amplifiers up to ~200 kHz.
Because the cable capacitance has no effect on the frequency response in the audio range (and in the ultrasonic range), therefore the linearity of the insulation material does not matter. In other words, even the possibility of the distortion can be completely excluded. There is no nonlinear distortion in speaker cables and there is no sonic difference between PVC, rubber, Teflon. The insulation is important at high frequencies (above 1 MHz) or in circuits with high voltages and high impedances.
Sometimes power amplifiers become unstable with long and high capacitance cables and overheat, which can lead to excess distortion or even amp failure, while these amps – like any well designed audio power amp – can drive very high capacitive loads (even 200 nF) without going into oscillation. This very rare oscillation at RF can be attributed to the lower velocity of propagation of high capacitance cables which results in lower quarter-wave resonant frequency.* If the resonance ‘meets’ some low level RF noise, e.g. residual noise of a DAC and the amplifier does not have proper RF protection, then the amp may overheat and the current protection may switch off. To avoid RF oscillation a very simple damper circuit (10 Ohm resistor parallel with a 1-2 uH coil) is added to the output of power amplifiers. The damper circuit has no effect on the frequency response in the audio frequency range and the protection is required for high-bandwidth amps if the cable is longer than about 10 meters.
* The other problem with high capacitance cables is that they become a short circuit at their quarter-wave resonance frequency, on the other hand normal zip cords or twisted cables still have some (1-2 Ohm) shunt resistance.
The inductance of the cable forms a low pass filter with the speaker. The higher the inductance or the lower the load impedance, the lower the cut-off frequency of this low pass filter. Fortunately, up to 15 or 20 meters the inductance does not cause significant (larger than 0.5 dB) loss. Speakers rated at 4 Ohm impedance are more sensitive to inductance than 8 Ohm systems.
And now here comes the most important parameter of loudspeaker cables: DC resistance . The resistance of the wire and the varying impedance of the speaker together form a frequency-dependent attenuator (voltage divider). The attenuation has a fixed (DC) component and a frequency-dependent part. In a badly designed system (using really thin and long wires), the first can be heard as a volume decrease, the latter can be heard as a change in the tone (apparent bass and mid-boost in a two-way loudspeaker).
The main rule of speaker cables is very simple: the lower the speaker impedance (load impedance), the smaller the cable resistance has to be. If we allow a maximum of 0.3 dB attenuation, the resistance of the cable can be up to 4% of the speaker’s minimum impedance. If we allow a maximum of 0.5 dB attenuation by the cable, the resistance of the cable can be up to 6% of the speaker’s minimum impedance. And for a maximum attenuation of 1 dB, the resistance of the cable can be up to 12% of the speaker’s minimum impedance. More about wire gauge selection (metric & AWG) can be found here.
Frequency response of a 10 meters (32.8 feet) long standard 1.5mm2 zip-cord speaker cable with 4, 8 and 16 Ohms load resistances
The lower the load resistance (the lower the impedance of the speaker), the more sensitive to cable resistance and inductance – and the larger, the more insensitive. Otherwise: For a given wire cross section, an 8 Ohm speaker has twice the maximum cable length than a 4 Ohm system.
The greater the resistance of the speaker cable, the more ‘bumpy’ impedance of the speaker in the frequency response is reflected. For long and thin cables this can be perceived as a change in the tone. If the speaker’s impedance were flat, then the cable would cause volume decrease only.
The loudspeaker cable is the simplest component in the signal chain: its function is to transmit the current from amplifier to loudspeakers with no audible distortion and loss. There are no complicated multi-stage signal conversions (amplification, filtering, energy transformation, modulation) as in the active elements (amplifier) or in the loudspeaker (electromechanical and acoustical transformation). Speaker cables are really boring devices compared to speakers or amplifiers.
All in all: speaker cables, wires act as a low-pass filter due to inductance and skin effect. Fortunately, these effects are well above the audible frequency band. What is important however, is that the resistance of the wire and the impedance of the speaker together form a frequency-dependent attenuator (voltage divider). With conventional copper cables that have a large enough cross-section it is possible to restrict this frequency-dependent attenuation to be sufficiently low in the audio range. The attenuation of the cable is not audible if the speaker cable resistance does not reach the 4% of speaker impedance minimum (0.3 dB criteria).
Using high-quality speaker connectors are more important than using exotic and expensive loudspeaker cables . Expensive, exotic loudspeaker cables do not improve or fix an error in an audio system, unless the cables and connectors have a very poor quality. Audiophile loudspeaker cables are optically ‘turbocharged’ conventional loudspeaker cables, and although their built quality is indisputable, the so many hiccups in their marketing are false.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://content.abt.com/documents/4379/aq_cable_theory.pdf
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do XLR interconnects sound by default better than RCA at home Hi-Fi?
http://whatishifi.blogspot.com/2018/06/-xlr-vs-rca-connection.html
Tomi Engdahl says:
Tunable Audio Cables
https://www.wireonwire.com/
Tunable HiFi audio cables and speaker cables
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lGVZ9cUE6g
Tomi Engdahl says:
The Essex Echo 1995: Electrical Signal Propagation & Cable Theory
https://www.stereophile.com/reference/1095cable
This article examines propagation in cables—especially within conductive material—from the fundamental principles of electromagnetic theory. The aim is to consider mechanisms that form a more rational basis for an objective understanding of claimed sonic anomalies in interconnects, especially as the rumors about single-strand, thin wires persist.
Tomi Engdahl says:
That “concede the fidelity” is pretty awesome marketing speak.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Tips for beginning audio designs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjy_zDZeMaw
Tomi Engdahl says:
Speaker sensitivity and audio quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYZMdkhC22c
Is there a reason all speakers don’t have high efficiency? Does high efficiency speakers suffer any tradeoffs?
Video comments:
“everything is a trade-off” and “law of diminishing returns” sums up my experience with audio gear.
Although 3db is twice the acoustical energy, it takes 10db for our brain to perceive it as twice as loud, our brains are not linear in our perception of sound loudness.
Great!
Never heard this explained before. And I actually understood it. Don’t ask me to repeat it though. I didn’t take notes. Thanks Paul.
Spend the money on high efficiency speakers…save on a modest power amp or receiver…and get a subwoofer…your welcome!
Lower moving mass (Mms) implies a higher resonance frequency of the drive unit , wich impedes how low you can tune it
To answer the question, “no”. It’s just really hard to make good sounding high effiency speakers, as you’re sacrificing linearity, but no it doesn’t directly correlation, since the IRS V paul is so fond of is very sensitive.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Confused by audiophile words? The Audiophiliac is here to help
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg9orlmTnUQ
Steve runs down the audiophile lexicon, everything you need to know about the words he uses to describe sound!
Video comments:
This was great, Steve! I’m seeing some other more common ones you didn’t mention that you might start collecting for a “part 2″ like: transients, warmth, texture, cool, bright, lush, neutral, holographic, decay, slam, punch, musical, sweet, bloom, body, coherence, euphonic, etched, involving, sibilance, veiled, weight.
Maybe add “passed out” happens when too many glasses of wine are consumed while listening to your stereo system : )
These terms say more about the listener than the equipment. They describe what the listener notices, or feels. Which is why measurements fail to predict the experience, most of the experience happens after the sound hits the ears.
I feel like “fast” results in how well a speaker produces silence in all the places it’s tasked to. It’s like how well a projector produces the color black. Black gives everything on your screen contrast. Silence does the same thing and “fast” is the characteristic which allows your speaker to do it with precision. I also hear people use the word tight for the same phenomenon.
“wet” and “dry” as terms almost certainly came from the wet/dry knob on mixers that would yield a 100% “clean” or 100% “affected” signal (referring to reverb in this case)
How about “organic” and the infamous “musicality” ?
‘Musicality’ is a term Steve uses a lot, but somehow I’m not sure about what he means by that. I wish someone explained this with other, perhaps more ‘technical’ terms.
I don’t understand the words “Expensive” and “Addiction”
That is why I am not an Audiophile
To help understand “wet” I like to think “saturated”
All I want is to enjoy the music for quality and performance, the best is when the equipment disappears.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Clean audio is “boring” only if you have a certain taste for coloration (distortion), about which no two audiophiles agree. Ultimately, taste evolves (matures) to where audiophiles do agree that the cleanest audio is best.
Tomi Engdahl says:
You may think about PP solid state amp which is terrible another one is very good the same with class A so on so forth. All is about implementation. I would tend to say class A solid state amp coud soud better for principle of operation.
Tomi Engdahl says:
I think a lot of people are making too many assumptions
Trying too compare one amplifier over another one better then the other
The most important thing is room, synergy system everything working together
Front end, amps, speakers cables
Tomi Engdahl says:
Soldering is more secure than screws, it needs less space and you don’t have to bother about minimum wire diameter.
Speakon connectors are for thicker wires and I still prefer to solder them. As the time passes they eventually get loose.
Some say: Furthermore, solder as a sole means of connection is inferior to a crimped ring terminal or bootlace ferrule.
Soldering tin is somewhat less conductive than copper, but does it in practice matter in wire connection where there is many meters of cable and typically less than 1 mm of solder (typically with larger contact area the signal needs to go through.
“The electrical conductivity of soft and hard solders is considerably less than that of copper, varying with composition between approximately 9 percent and 13 percent for soft solders and 20 percent and 40 percent for silver solders.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/150371b0
Tomi Engdahl says:
Real cable snake oil
https://audiocomav.com/high-fidelity-cables-nps-1260-3-d-enhancer-solution.html
Tomi Engdahl says:
If you can’t see it with instrumentation then blind test it……if you can’t blind test it to 80% accuracy it’s most likely snake oil.
Tomi Engdahl says:
“Don’t reply if you only have prejudices instead of listening experiences, that is what I think. I won’t follow this post anymore, the answers of disbelievers are ridiculous”
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYAudio/permalink/4229219927143821/
If you count audio noise as coming from the weakest link in a very long wire chain, then a better cable or circuit breaker makes no sense.
However, since anyone with good audio ears knows that certain cables or power cords can make a significant positive difference in the sound, the “weakest link” theory cannot be true.
Even though you may not have considered this, what if a wire of a different type can actually act as a filter, to literally filter out noise? How else could a different type of power cord help a system to sound better?
In the end, all that matters is that your good audio ears hear a difference that you like, and that agrees with your pocketbook. Those with inadequate ears will cry heresy! Snake oil!! But so what? Let them be happy with their zip cord.
The first tenet in all science is that you can never disprove the existence of a thing. Think on that.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Power cord termination with Furutech FP 209 spades
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbS6-3EfgE
Instructional video:
Terminating large gauge power cord with Furutech’s FP-209 spades and Furutech’s FI-50 NCF connectors
Tomi Engdahl says:
Audiophile power strips: what to look for & what to avoid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l_Zt9BDRdU
In this video we explore eight main characteristics that a quality audiophile-grade power strip, also known as power distributor, should have and should not have in order to buy with awareness or make your own!
Index:
0:00 Intro
0:37 8 Main points
1:05 #1 Chassis
1:44 #2 Wiring
3:05 #3 Wire
3:52 #4 Clamps
4:48 #5 Polarity
5:45 #6 Cable
6:54 #7 Design
7:19 #8 Contacts
8:03 Final considerations & recommendations
Tomi Engdahl says:
HiFi Real Talk – Why I don’t use power conditioners… BUT something else
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjzlFkcZP1g
Many HiFi audio power conditioners out there like PS audio, Torus, furman, Audioquest Niagara and so on… but
Do power conditoners improve sound quality?
most affordable power conditioner that actually works is not what you think. It may be something that has nothing to do with HiFi or the audiophile world.
Video comments:
I agree, I haven’t had any luck with power conditioner or isolation transformers.
Years ago I had an electrician run home run to the breaker box with 10awg wire. Spent under $200, best money I’ve spent in a long time on my system.
I just been looking at power regenerators so one I can plug in more stuff, two I plan have a gaming pc setup & I would rather not have the power shared between my dac, my headphone tube amp, SS amp, PC & monitor with some outlet extension thing, it just doesn’t seem ideal.. maybe I’ll go the route of adding a dedicated line or two in the same place. thanks for bringing this idea up
Great handling of a sensitive topic. What you said all makes sense!
Line level components can benefit from simple power conditioning as they only output a few volts max.
Of course you notice the noise in the quiet passages so millivolts of audio is easily affected by low level noise.
Power amps have high voltage rails and big capacitors which will filter out most noise as long as the line input is clean.
Power amps are more sensitive to current not voltage. Dynamics will suffer if current is restricted.
Surge protector are the big enemy, their very name suggest they restrict current surges.
Another easy solution is just buy high efficiency speakers. Very low current demand!
Also why they are more dynamic sounding!
$179 CAD for each dedicated 20A line when building my house. Recently also added a PS Audio P20. Just love the improvement that the P20 brings.
My apartment has a dedicated 240V outlet which I use.
Excellent thinking. Exactly about 20 yrs ago I had my house remodeled with a dedicated 25A line for my entertainment center. Not really thinking of power conditioning, just enough power to run the system without tripping the breaker, but after listening to you wow that was a great thought, because I was considering a power conditioner. Thx 2 heads are better than one
Before installing a new line, try to figure out what else is sharing the line/circuit and unplug/move them or turn them off while you’re listening to your stereo. Also, all appliances in your kitchen shouldn’t be a problem as all electrical lines/circuits in the kitchen (except for lighting) are not shared with anything else in the house (electrical code requirement).
Valid points Jay! I use a UPS from General Electric (VH Series) You can set the frequency and voltage and it generates this nice sine from batteries, I have used it on a JBL S7150 power amp and it was not limited in power.
When we built our house I had a shielded dedicated line put in. I finally got to use it with my audiophile power distributor via a heavy duty shielded power cable. Good tip, Jay. Interesting to hear your experience with the Naim. I made the exact opposite experience since I went from an untreated system next to RF transmitters (WLAN routers) to using the dedicated power sockets and RF shielding on all power cables. Wow! Blacker background, deeper bass, more detail, energetic highs. it started sounding like the $25000 system it would be if I had to replace everything today. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
My experience differs with Jay’s experience. The PSAudio P12 does make dramatic positive sonic improvements in my system. It is not current limiting and has dedicated High Current outlets. Maybe Jay is living where the AC is clean and consistent. Maybe the multi-thousand dollar power cables used at Audio Excellence Canada can do tricks that normal households will never get a chance to experience. Condemning power conditioners and regenerators with a sweep of the hand is a little bit of the old Jay hubris we have come to know and enjoy. On the agreement side, Audioquest understands how to block, trap and eliminate noise. Their cables improve sound quality and soundstage.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do Power Conditioners Really Work? Snake Oil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qFh1e7razo
This video demonstrates whether or not a power conditioner actually cleans and filters the electricity going to your devices. If you are looking to purchase a power conditioner for your music studio, then you definitely need to watch this before you buy a power conditioner. I used a broadband EMI Meter to show proof of the power conditioner’s performance. Are they worth it? Depends on why you need one.
You can get the broadband EMI meter here https://amzn.to/2J1c4ip
Thanks for the video. According to Amazon, this measure a broad range of dirty electricity frequencies (approximately 3 kHz — 10 MHz). However, if you check the spec of a lower cost Furman conditioner, it typically say filter only 10 khz and up. May be that is why the power conditioners didn’t get the level down that much.
thank you NAT!!! I HAVE BEEN WONDERING!!! this is real shit, it’s what the people need. “multivolts.” despite your misknowledge, you still have a legitimate scientific reasoning and demonstration. very helpful.
Tomi Engdahl says:
RD EMI Neutralizer Audio Power Filter: Clearing the Power Supply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fuMp2Dd0TU
RD EMI Neutralizer in action. A short illustration of what our audio power filter combined with surge protection can do: supply clean power clear of the noise from the power grid. Find out more at http://www.rdacoustic.cz
Tomi Engdahl says:
My Top 5 Inexpensive Hifi Tweaks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtb88_hbCFQ
Do you want to squeeze that last bit of performance out of your hifi system? These are my top 5 inexpensive tweaks that will hopefully improve the way your system sounds.
Video comments:
Thanks for the videos. An audiophile with common sense and not just deep pockets, someone who speaks my language!
Thank you for a common sense, reasonable approach to taking care of the basics.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Paradox Audio Balanced interconnect and String Theory MKII speaker cables review
https://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/06/paradox-audio-balanced-interconnect-and.html
Paradox Audio has a simple philosophy: “We believe the performance of an audio cable is determined by the conductivity of the materials used, and the craftsmanship with which it is built. Our cables are handmade to perfection with the finest quality materials available, utilizing pure gold, and silver and copper. Other high end cable brands spend time developing theories and technologies that have nothing to do with reality, at Paradox Audio we simply use the laws of physics when making what we believe is the best high end audio cables in the world.”
High End design.
Design is an important factor when choosing a set of high end audio cables. Countless of hours go into designing each of our cables giving them the ultimate high end look while still maintaining our incredible handmade craftsmanship.
Customized product and design.
We can customize a high end audio cable entirely. If you want different colors, lengths, terminations, designs, sizes, active contra passive shielding or maybe both, we can
manufacture it.
Paradox Audio – Balanced interconnect
These balanced interconnects supposedly have a very low capacitance and inductance. They came equipped with Furutech XLR connectors. One cable was black and the other was white.
“Balanced XLR audio interconnects with double shielding and incredibly low capacitance and inductance. Made with the purest of copper and connectors of rhodium plated tellurium copper, it has the same conductivity to pure copper but with much higher hardness and shown oxidation resistance. Each connector is housed in a carbon cover and the cable is wrapped with an exclusive braided sleeving and double shielding (both active and passive) making this interconnect truly worthy of the most expensive of high end setups with extremely low distortion and signal loss enhancing crystal clear sound.”
Specifications:
Conductors: 4×26 AWG (4×0,22mm) Extremely pure copper 99,99%
Resistance: 0,0119 Ohm pr/ft
Inductance: 0,13 uH pr/ft
Capacitance: 4,61 pF pr/ft
Paradox Audio – String Theory MKII speaker cables
These speaker cables came in 4 meters length which was kind of unfortunate since the majority of cables came at 2.5 meters length. The longer speaker cables have higher series resistance and hence higher power loss, however, Paradox says:
“Our new and improved “String Theory MKII” high end audio cable with bigger conductors and a bigger construction. Did someone say bigger is better? The conductors have been improved to massive 6 AWG which makes the cable capable of higher current transfers resulting in a deeper and more detailed sound characteristic. This cable will improve your listening sessions with a more silent and a truly transparent soundstage.
Specifications:
Conductors:
4×9 AWG (4x6mm) or 2×6 AWG (2x12mm) 99,9% POFC.
Insulation:
Double layer of special PVC, conductors wrapped in special PVC.
Measurements: 18,8 mm OD
Resistance: 0,0004 Ohm pr/ft
Inductance: 0,21 uH pr/ft
Capacitance: 3,9 pF pr/ft
Max current: 101 Amps
Availability: Color: Black, White, Black/Silver
Length: Custom made upon request
Type: Single wire, Bi-amp/wire
Since the series resistance behaves proportionally, according to the length, the oHm values would be somewhat lower with shorter runs of speaker cables. The Paradox Audio String Theory MKII speaker cable showed 23.44 mohm at the measured 6 Hz frequency. The inductance at 40 kHz was 4.26 μH which was higher than with either Skogrand Beethoven or TelluriumQ Silver Diamonds but as already said, the Paradox Audio String Theory MKII speaker cable was almost twice the length of the other two. Inductance increases the impedance in the high frequency spectrum and hence the high frequency losses, so it should be kept at minimum if we want “open, transparent highs” but it also must be considered in relation to the relative series impedance.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Design of Audio Interconnects
An insight into RFC Audio Cable design philosopy
http://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/articles/design-of-interconnects/
Effective Unbalanced Cables:
The most effective form of unbalanced cable by far is the shielded coaxial (coax) cable. This uses asymmetrical conductors, typically a central signal conductor wire, surrounded by a braided or spiral shield. In order to be effective at reducing external noise, the ground or shield must have very good coverage and for reducing the impacts of external noise, must have lower impedance than the signal wire (ie be more conductive).
There is a common misconception that a simple un-shielded twisted equal pair (sometimes referred to as the “perfect” twisted pair) somehow cancels noise in an unbalanced circuit, but since there’s no common mode noise rejection the signal will pick up noise as well as raising capacitance which is a factor of each conductor’s diameter and distance apart (plus the insulation between them). By twisting an unbalanced pair, the magnitude of some EMI noise can be mitigated (but not avoided) by reducing antenna loop area and this is likely where the misconceptions are about rejecting noise (ie it helps but it doesn’t prevent it from happening). Generally speaking, unshielded twisted pair signal cables used in unbalanced circuits and the term “high fidelity” are not to be confused!
Multi braided cables (often mistakenly referred to as “Litz braid”) usually employ a greater number of strands for the ground return than the signal so the theory is that the ground return is less resistive than the signal which mitigates against noise and that the greater number of wires used forms a better “shield effect” than the simple twisted pair. This configuration is arguably more effective at reducing common mode noise than a twisted pair by virtue of the better conductivity of the ground, but it also has several drawbacks. Firstly, by increasing the number of individual wires, capacitance is raised. Secondly, using more wire strands than a twisted pair offers no real increased shielding effect against RFI and EMI. The gaps between the ground conductors and the signal are simply too large, as with the twisted pair configuration.
Generally, for low noise environments, and in line level applications, braid can be satisfactory if the number of conductors is limited to 3 (one signal, two return) and the wires individually insulated in a something like cotton (air gaps in the material provide a low dielectric constant and cotton is a good damping material). Satisfactory interconnects are possible using this method. However, they are no match for an overall shielded cable.
Wires loosely threaded through PTFE tubing as seems the fashion amongst some sellers is not recommended and is largely provided as it’s easy to construct and convenient. The distance between the conductors is variable as the air gap is inconsistent, there are triboelectric effects, particularly where silver conductors are concerned, this type of construction is not recommended. Silver is often described as somehow “brighter” sounding but this misconception may be linked to the use of silver in PTFE dielectrics which can result in HF “ringing”. Silver, like copper, has no sound. It is a conductor. the main advantage of using it, is to enable thinner core conductors which in any given geometry can reduce capacitance but often at the increased risk of core fracture at the connector joint.
Types of Shielded Unbalanced Cables:
There are two types commonly employed for audio signal leads: single core coax and twin core coax. The former is a simple single core arrangement but suffers from one problem, in that the ground return needed to complete the signal also carries any additional noise from RFI and EMI which is additive to the noise induced into the signal. One way of mitigating this is to use twin core shielded unbalanced cable. The shield is connected at one end only (usually the source end) and acts effectively to pick up and shunt unwanted RFI and EMI noise to the source component ground without being induced into the signal or ground return.
That’s the theory; in practice there are limitations of this design as some noise inevitably will be picked up through gaps in the shielding. It also raises capacitance, but providing cable length isn’t excessive (and for almost all conceivable home audio applications, it won’t be), the capacitance will be within perfectly acceptable limits for most line level sources which are generally have low source impedance (ie the circuit is not as prone to HF signal loss through higher capacitive loading). Often, to combat the capacitance increase, the overall coaxial cable thickness is increased. Both single and twin core coaxial cables make very good high fidelity signal interconnects.
One thing is often missed though, especially where phono and CDP/DAC interconnects (to the amplifier) are concerned: the signal has a ground return, which is part of the circuit so total signal transmission distance includes this return portion and many CDPs for example do benefit audibly by keeping interconnect lengths as short as possible to avoid things like internal signal reflections.
Types of Shielding:
There are two basic groups of shield employed for signal cables: the outer screen and quite often an inner screen located usually just underneath the main outer shield. Each has a different function. The outer shield, usually copper, is used in unbalanced single core interconnects to act as the signal return and to act as a barrier against unwanted noise getting through to the signal conductor (s). In balanced circuits it does not form part of the signal return. To be effective, it must be tied to a ground at both ends (single core coaxial cable in unbalanced circuits and twin core used in balanced circuits) or at one end for twin core coaxial used in unbalanced circuits.
There is a misconception that twin core coaxial cable in unbalanced circuits must have the shield grounded at both ends to be effective, but this is not true. People often quote the issue of a shield being connected at one end acting like an antenna and inducting noise in the signal. Providing it’s grounded to a component chassis which itself has a ground connection to the AC power source ground, any stray noise will be shunted to that ground. At frequencies below 100KHz (ie all audio frequencies) the transfer impedance of the shield will equal its DC resistance. At frequencies above 100KHz skin effect will increase transfer impedance but we do not have to consider that for audio frequencies.
It’s not sufficient just to have a low impedance outer copper screen. That screen must also have good optical coverage, ie have few gaps for interference to get though. The highest quality braided screens have around 97% optical coverage and the weave means that the coverage remains constant even if the cable is flexed or bent, so it is a very effective shield. Its is however more expensive to make than the spiral shielding found on less expensive interconnects. The other benefit of a lapped or woven shield is that is has very low inductance, so provides excellent low transfer impedance at higher frequencies.
Spiral shielding is also effective and is more flexible than braided shielding but repeated bending and flexing can open small gaps in the shield barrier reducing its long term effectiveness. Spiral shields by their very construction act like an inductor coil so have very high inductance and this means that their transfer impedance increases with frequency thus they become less effective as the frequency rises, but again this is generally not a problem for audio frequencies, just those above 100 KHz.
The inner shield is generally made of Mylar Foil. Its function is principally to block any RFI getting through the outer shield as it has a 100% coverage. It is not as conductive as copper and with flexing and over time, the conductive plating can wear and allow gaps for RFI to migrate through.
So what matters?
1. LCR Parameters
The term “LCR” is commonly used to describe Inductance, Capacitance and Resistance (or in the case of AC signals, Impedance). This is principally what matters for all audio signal cables. Interconnects differ from speaker cables in that they are principally in a low current, high impedance circuit and speaker cables are in a high current circuit driving low impedance ‘speaker loads.
Whats the difference? Well in low current systems of milliamps but with driving voltages of between a few millivolts and say 5 volts, the signal is less prone to inductance effects on the signal due to the low value of current being passed. Inductance is the ability of a conductor to store energy in a magnetic field, with the property that in doing so it creates an opposing voltage proportional to the rate of change of current in a circuit. In effect, the current flowing down a signal conductor creates a tiny electromagnetic field but in signal applications the value is so low as to be negligible in terms of inductive reactance (not so in speaker cables).
So with tiny phono or line-level currents at audio frequencies, inductance isn’t that important, nor is resistance (or impedance) with the exception of shield or ground resistance, since the output impedance of a source component is much lower than the input impedance of the receiving amplifier (therefore the cable resistance is not going to affect the signal unless it is inconceivably high).
This just leaves Capacitance. Many of you may have read that capacitance at audio frequencies is not important, but it is, very important, especially where phono signals are concerned. High cable capacitance combined with the source impedance can form a low pass filter. The higher the source impedance, the greater the impacts of capacitance and the more the HF will be rolled off. A good example is with phono signals. Consider a high inductance source such as a MM cartridge. As frequency increases, so does source impedance due to the high inductive nature of the MM cartridge design. Therefore as frequency rises and output impedance rises, combining that with a high capacitive load (either high capacitance cable or excessive cable lengths) will make HF response suffer.
The other deleterious effect of capacitance in low level audio signal cables is that the storage and release of energy caused has an effect on the audio signal, whether subjective “detractors” believe this or not, it is an audio fact, NOT an audio myth. An audio signal, unlike a single form RF signal, is made up of multiple complex waveforms varying in amplitude and frequency. These include harmonic waveforms which make up things like specific tones and timbres. They are related by phase (time difference between signals) amongst other things and capacitance, even low level capacitance, affects these phase relationships. However subtle those impacts are, they nevertheless change in some fundamental way the nature of the signal such that the waveform loses part of the true timbrel accuracy of the original signal, so in general, the lower the cable capacitance the better, hence the shorter the cable the better. How audible subtle shifts in phase accuracy are depend on may factors not least the rest of the audio chain, but seeking perfection or at least good practice is a worthwhile goal if one wishes to do everything possible to preserve the audio signal.
Many MM cartridges like to see a load generally of lower than 400 or 500pF. Taking the phono stage input into consideration (typically 150 to 250 pF) you can see the effects of adding capacitance from a cable of say 3m long with 100pF/m capacitance. It may have a marked effect on signal. For this reason, single core coax is best suited to longer runs for phono leads since it’s capacitance is lower. This effect is not as pronounced for MC cartridges as their outputs, hence inductance values tend to be lower.
2. Phase Shift and Skin Effect
A factor in signal propagation is how that propagation (and the propagation velocity) is affected by high capacitance. Use of dielectric insulators with high dielectric constants (PVC being one such example) can lead to unacceptably high capacitance in cables which can affect signal propagation at extremely low levels of audibility. Sometimes this is referred to as signal smearing but the term is sometimes mis-used since “smearing” is also related to phase shift and it’s effects on harmonic series signal wave forms.
So what is “phase shift?” It simply describes the displacement of two signals with time (relative to one another). To better understand the effects of phase shift, it is useful to first understand how music (and more to the point) musical notes are made up. In audio applications, fundamental frequency and “tone” are often and mistakenly considered to be the same thing and music mistakenly considered to be formed when a series of single waveform tones (or fundamental notes) all come together at varying amplitudes to create that music . It this were true, then there would be NO audible difference between a note of say “C” played on a trumpet and the same “C” note played on a violin, so why do they sound different? Well, because each instrument produces a frequency waveform made up of different parts, and the fundamental note is just one part of the “whole” note.
When a signal is fed into one end of an interconnect, the ideal interconnect should be able to pass that signal whilst maintaining the harmonic series waveforms and their associated phase differences and amplitudes. In reality, other factors come into play whereby distortion or loss of part of the harmonic series happens from recording through to replay via source components, amplification and output from the loudspeakers. Room reflections also impact heavily on phase distortions so does it really matter if a signal cable doesn’t preserve what manages to make it onto the recording and on to to loudspeakers? Being perfectionist about conservation of signal integrity means, yes it should matter. However, whether any signal losses as “phase shift differences” as already mentioned, are audible depends on so many variables. The losses via signal cables are likely to be minimal in terms of the overall audio chain from recording through to the loudspeakers, so it’s not really worth losing sleep over. You get more phase shift differences from in-room reflections than you do with most cables for example. However, good practice says if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right.
This leads onto skin effect. So much has been written about the impacts of skin effects at audio frequencies often very poorly with very little explanation of how it affects sound at audio frequencies. Skin effect has little real impact on fundamental notes at audio frequencies. However, it does have an affect on harmonics, and therefore (it is sometimes argued) the degree of “realism” on the timbre of some musical notes.
Skin effect causes phase lag, and phase lag affects harmonics, so the components of harmonic series waveforms that extend well beyond audio frequency thresholds can be affected, and in turn (it is argued) can affect how that sound is perceived. How does this relate to interconnect design? Well minimising phase shift is simply a matter of designing signal conductors to avoid excessive phase lag caused by skin effect. Take a typical signal conductor of say up to 1mm diameter. The value for phase shift caused by skin effect equals one Radian per skin depth. At 20KHz, skin depth is around 0.51mm, so up to 20KHz phase lag is never greater than one Radian. At 10Khz, skin depth is greater at about 0.7mm and by 60Hz, skin depth is much greater at about 8.5mm. At all audio frequencies for conductors of 1mm or less, the whole conductor is therefore used and phase differences are limited to one Radian or less (phase shift drops with frequency). This may not apply to the overtones in the harmonic series though so some phase lag of part of the signal may still have an impact (technically speaking) in the integrity of the the original signal.
There are other advantages however in making signal conductors smaller than 1mm in most instances by lowering capacitance between signal conductor and shield for any given diameter of cable.
The practical consideration of conductor size is more one of flexibility and strength. Too small and it could break easily, the smallest recommended size for mechanical integrity being about 0.4mm diameter which is about 26AWG. Signal conductors are commonly constructed of multi-strands of copper for good reason. A solid core of say 0.4mm is very prone to breakage and doesn’t withstand being flexed or put under repeated strain as well as a multi-stranded cable, so by making the cable of many smaller strands twisted together, the conductor is made more durable.
The very best theoretical signal core would be made up of lots of very fine individually shielded cores, commonly referred to as a Litz construction. These get over the phase lag (skin effect ) issues with harmonics and can be made into very small bundles (helping to keep capacitance low) whilst maintaining reasonable joint strength. They are, by their construction, more expensive to produce and therefore more expensive to purchase. They are far from easy to terminate for the home cable builder and are best left to the professional to terminate properly.
Cable choice – Summary
Summing up, a well designed interconnect cable might then be said to have the following very basic characteristics:
low capacitance
Multi strand signal conductor of 0.4-1.0mm (Litz is best but multistrand copper for all intents and purposes is fine)
effective and low impedance shielding
There are lots of manufacturers who claim other serious audible affects in low current signal cables but for the most part much of this is misinformation where no evidence is forthcoming to back up those claims and that includes skin effect and phase shift. There are however a small number of very reputable cable manufacturers who pride themselves in their attention to detail, and go the extra mile to seek perfection for total signal integrity and this may be reflected in their cable designs.
Whether you’ll ever notice the difference between such expensive cables (as large sums of money are usually associated with their design and specialist manufacture) and simpler designs I’ll leave for you to decide, suffice to say that those cables are generally very expensive and may be worth consideration if your system is ultimately revealing and your pockets very deep! Avoid pseudo scientific claims and anything subjective in terms of claimed design benefits. If there’s no evidence to back it up, it becomes a matter of opinion and marketing.
Construction Quality – unbalanced cables
This matters. If poorly shielded cable with poor dielectric insulation is used and the connectors in particular are of a poor quality, then noise will enter the signal, the signal will be degraded (noise/higher capacitance) and where the transfer of that signal matters most (ie at the connector’s junction with the receiving phono socket) then further losses will result. The standard of termination is important too. Where the conductors are joined to the plug, that joint must be secure and not increase unduly the impedance or the capacitance. The use of shielded non-magnetic plugs is always preferable to non shielded or magnetic plug types.
Magnetism in plug bodies can be caused by the layering techniques used in nickel plating and magnetic fields cause distortion in low current signals. Shielding is provided by the plug body being conductive (low impedance), as with the shield, so that noise is effectively shunted to ground. There is little point in having a very effective shield and then connecting it to a high impedance RCA plug!
The best type of solder to use for soldered joints is solder alloy composed with similar metals to the one’s being joined to with a low eutectic melting point (so that excess heat doesn’t damage insulators or alter the physical properties of conductors, plus the melting temperature is lower than the individual melting points of component metals employed so that the solder slurry sets as a true joint rather than a connection of individually setting metals which create lossy grain boundaries) and high conductivity.
Keeping the joints neat and free of cold joints is vital too, so its best not to attempt soldering your own connections unless you are confident in your soldering skills! Mechanical joints are better still, since a gas tight cold weld can be formed via crimping, but there are very few plugs on the market suitable for this type of joint, although some of the better factory made cables are terminated in this way.
Construction Quality – Balanced Cables
This matters for the same reasons as for unbalanced cables. Whilst most if not all noise may be rejected by common mode noise rejection, it is still preferable to utilise non magnetic plugs with high build and contact quality. Worth considering the pin quality too, as repeated removal and insertion can lead to wear on the conductors and a loss of signal integrity. High quality plating, as with RCA phono plugs is important for longevity and reliability.
What Cable Do You Need?
The answer depends on your intended use.
1. Unbalanced Cables:
For Phono Applications it is recommended to use a quality single core coaxial cable to minimise capacitance (or a well designed twin core coax cable) and ensure sufficient shield coverage of 95% or greater of the cable together with low capacitance non-magnetic plugs for best results. Keeping the cables to a minimum length matters, so aim for 2m or less if possible. If this is not possible, you may need to find out what your MM phono preamp recommended capacitive loading is and then work out the cable capacitance (total) needs to be to keep things under around the ballpark of 500pF for the circuit (this is less important for MC cartridge loading but it’s always wise to check the specifications for individual cartridges).
For Line Level Applications either a single or twin core cable which satisfies similar criteria as for phono leads and (up to a point) you can get away with much longer cable runs without serious degradation of the signal although the shorter the better is the best mantra to practice. If budget’s an issue, go for a high quality single core coax. This will yield decent results. If you think you have a problem with ground loops or are in a particularly “noisy” environment then a high quality shielded twin core may fit the bill and may sometimes be more effective at preventing RFI and EMI from being induced into the signal.
2. Balanced Cables
Pretty much as for unbalanced cables in respect of capacitance issues on phono leads, but otherwise you can make these as longer (generally speaking) without serious effects on the signal from external noise. 5m or more for line level applications. Consider using good quality connectors.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/media/audioquest/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf
Tomi Engdahl says:
Our hearing is subject to a whole lot of placebo. Simply believing that a certain upgrade or key specification will make your speakers or headphones sound better is often more likely to cause to an ‘improvement’ than any actual change. Still, many golden-eared audiophiles will swear they can hear a difference without evidence.
Although at low bitrates the differences between lossy and lossless audio can be quite obvious, I’m willing to bet most people can’t tell apart a lossless file from a 256 kbps MP3 one — let alone a file compressed with the more modern Ogg codec that Spotify uses.
https://thenextweb.com/news/before-you-pay-for-spotify-hifi-try-to-pass-this-lossless-audio-test
Tomi Engdahl says:
AC flows along the outer surface of the conductor whereas DC flows uniformly throughout the entire cross section of the conductor.
The electric current flows mainly at the “skin” of the conductor, between the outer surface and a level called the skin depth. Skin depth depends on the frequency of the alternating current; as frequency increases, current flow moves to the surface, resulting in less skin depth. At 60 Hz in copper, the skin depth is about 8.5 mm. At high frequencies the skin depth becomes much smaller.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect
Tomi Engdahl says:
Choosing the Right Power Strip for HI-FI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5EbcXzxXyg
Video comments:
Don’t ever plug one power strip into another ! It’s against the electrical code. If you have a fire, your insurance may not cover your damages . . .
While that’s true, I don’t have a choice in this situation. I have only one outlet in the room, and no better way to do this, which is why I used the switched power supplies. If everything is off, and I choose what’s getting power at any given time, there’s no issue.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.cablematters.com/blog/HDMI/do-hdmi-cables-go-bad
Tomi Engdahl says:
How a $300,000 Speaker is Made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX65iSZTI7E
Oswalds Mill Audio makes $300,000 speakers from wood like ash, cherry, and walnut—plus slate and special cast iron.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYAudio/permalink/4227586277307186/
Does a special fuse have any effect on the sound quality?
But to claim that stand « sounds » better is stretch I’m not willing to make
So. If a fuse can affect the sound, what physical thing is being altered to accomplish that ?
A 3 amp gold fuse will pass same amount of current, assuming that it follows the actual specs for a 3 amp fuse, and that is basically it pops when there is more than 3 amps of current draw, slow blow fuses allow for occasional surges past 3 amps or the draw is over 3 amps for x amount of time.
Now the main and probably only real reason to use gold plated anything in audio or electronics is that it won’t tarnish or corrode.
Copper is the standard for conductivity, and silver is more conductive than copper, but is also more expensive etc..
the top studios in the world don’t use fancy power cords, fuses or exotic speaker wire and interconnects.
Power issues are addressed even before the main panel, or there are completely dedicated circuits
Wiring is generally either Belden, or Mogami, and the power cords are whatever was in the box..
So you’ve got the recording studios that create the content you’re listening to, they’ve got pretty big budgets and definitely want the absolute best for their artists and etc…
But none of them give a shit about fancy fuses, and you won’t see a product from Synergistic Research, PS audio or any other carnival side show vendor anywhere, because they don’t make any difference at all.
this hypothesis: Fuses add inductance and resistance to the power going into your amp.
This is why some people ditch fuses altogether and solder in copper (I would not recommend). So, if we know fuses add negative influences to the sole stream of electrons running into an amp- why is it so crazy that reducing resistance and inductance could help in some applications?
any theoretical issues caused by the fuse would be mitigated by the design of the power supply.
If fancy fuses and power cords made a difference, I’d assume they would com as standard or at least a factory option from high end manufacturers of power Amps etc..
The other issue I’ve got with all these fuses,cables etc is that the manufacturers won’t share any meaningful measurements, which then makes me question how they are able to measure for quality control and how they define an improved product.
If you claim it’s a trade secret, I call bs.
Take a look at anything in the professional or studio world,
Most brands have piles of white papers, studies and other information publicly available.
most legitimate manufacturers love to brag about their specs.
They supply them freely, and use established measurements and specs when discussing them.
gear based on specs, detailed descriptions of how it accomplished them, and the history, track record and innovation of he company building them.
Most every descriptor used to describe the benefits of certain high-end products are opinions, not necessarily facts.
I can tell you that proper speaker alignment, listening position, acoustic treatments, based on expert advice, will cost far less than a fancy speaker cable, will produce substantial results that no cable or fuse can touch.
Tomi Engdahl says:
What you should know about audiophile hearing, part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkgRzLygNrU
Our auditory system – our ‘hearing’ – was supplied to you at birth as many digital products are delivered today: limited, waiting for the firmware update. And after the first update, often many will follow over time. The difference is that our auditory system updates itself. It’s a process known as learning…
Tomi Engdahl says:
Audiophile Cable TRUTHS: Power Cords
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNKRWvbIwUw
Alternating current can be “dirty” due to modern electronic devices, vacuum cleaners, microwaves, chargers, florescent lights, dimmers etc etc.
The only real thing that any decent power cord might need is a thicker gauge.
You see this is why it’s always “some guy from Canada with some forgettable product” that gets mentioned along with the anecdotal bedtime stories.
Because there are no disinterested parties in the audio industry. The amount of backdoor excuses baked into the cable claims are there for a reason. “Like the fact that there’s no ONE SIZE FITS ALL”.
Because if it was measurable and substantial it could be patented!!!
Otherwise you will just have to trust the fact that it opens up the whatchamacallit and deepens the doohickey and smells so much better than lesser power cables.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
But they will just make you think that you simply cannot hear it. What a shame to be you. If only you had good ears and a fat wallet, then all of your sonic dreams could come true.
If you’re filtering out HF/VHF noise out of AC mains, how is “too much filtering/conditioning” a thing? Unless the filter designers are chopping the sine wave at 50/60hz. I mean, isn’t that just a bad conditioner design? Show me AC mains straight to a scope, and then show the scope on the end of the fancy cable/conditioner/regenerator. THAT should be your selling point.
Can you show us the difference in measurements? I understand that if you played us the audio we’re listening on whatever speakers we have, but we would be able to at least note a difference in quality even though it’s not a true representation of the sound. Without data or empirical evidence, everything you say is ultimately, untested and unscientific. Stories do not get the job done for me. I enjoy when you show before and after graphs for speaker reviews and what you did to fix them. Can nothing be done to show the difference between power cable A and B in a given setup?
Oh dear. Yes cables CAN make a difference – if there is insufficient gauge or poor connectors. But a $5.00 cable will have the necessary gauge and it is trivial to make a good connection. Spend your money on speakers. The reason this is so sad is that Danny is right up there when it comes to speakers – but now he descends to snake oil.
Comparing water filtration to a power cable doesn’t work, they are two different things.
Water from the city pipes will not get cleaner by replacing your in home pipes. You incorrectly compared it to adding filters which would clean the water. Replacing the pipe won’t filter the water so the water will be the same.
Power from the wall will not “get better” by replacing the cable, it can only be “less bad” as the cable eats up electricity due to resistance, and using 12awg over 14awg would assist in that.
The only way to improve the power quality would be by running through power conditioner, which would be similar to a water filter. At that point you’re trying to “clean it” using actual tools and not just a cable. The only thing a cable can do is hurt the signal.
If you want to claim that it makes an IMPROVEMENT, and not a negative change to signal that you perceive as “better” eg: HF roll off, then prove us all wrong and runs the tests between cables. Gene at Audiobolics does, and he’s an electrical engineer on top of that. Sound is easily measurable, so if you want people to believe what you say, then prove it.
I’m of the mindset that “It depends” and “yes, to an extent.” Filtering properties on good power, interconnect and speaker cables makes sense and I’ve experienced enough examples to agree. I am a big believer in the 80/20 rule and I won’t spend thousands on cables that are manufactured and priced to exist in that esoteric 20% realm of the “law of diminishing returns.” If you have the money and it’s worth it to you, knock yourself out.
If you want to talk digital, I’ll agree that USB as an audio transport is an inherently bad idea. There are better options.
As for TCP/IP and ethernet transports, no way. I’ll openly debate anyone trying to sell me on audiophile network switch and ethernet cables. I’m a 30+ year veteran of the computer science field and I know how the technology works. I’ve built the network use cases for privately funded studies on this very topic and I know that the claim for such devices is BS. But but but the antenna effect… I’ve seen comparisons using top end switches with DC power supplies and fiber optic cables yield identical results to cheap $30 copper based networks. There are actual measurements that validate this and I’ve experienced it first-hand. On this front, I’ll see your “flat-earther” label and raise it with my own “magical thinking” retort.
Can’t find any of your research papers on your website, maybe you can point me in the right place GR-Research.
Wow! Audiophiles are worse than guitar amp cork sniffers. The more money you spend the better your ears work. It’s a miracle. LOL
Interesting video, thank you. Appreciate the subject matter is somewhat contentious as some people refuse to believe that our understanding of science is not perfect (lol), despite the obviousness of this (even newtons laws are not true and we”ve been all over the galaxy using them).
I’ve been using power conditioning for a long long time – it quite clearly helps my system to deliver my music better, and no one but me knows its there. No bling, more sing.
Happy to sub here, as you will tell it how you hear it – thank you.
If you can hear the difference between power cables, then the PS section in your amplifier sucks ass… ;-). It’s supposed to convert everything it sees at the AC side to clean DC to power the amplification circuitry…
Why do these audiophile power cable guys never suggest using a proper, big UPS? They could condition the power how they wanted then – exact frequency and voltage, filter out the RF….
“It’s supposed to convert everything it sees at the AC side to clean DC to power the amplification circuitry”…Exactly, and even a cheap amplifier will do that well. All that is needed is an oscilloscope looking for ripple on the main PSU electrolytics and anyone can disprove Danny’s cable bullshit.
You guys are never going to learn if you never listen.
I have learned something. That you don’t understand the reason why power leads can’t, and therefore don’t affect performance. I’m surprised at this quite large gap in your knowledge.
Danny, You should run the cables through ETL or UL to keep yourself and customers out of trouble with non-paying insurance and potential lawsuits.
Heads up! There are thousands of electrical products on the market without third party testing approval.
Absolutely, and many that generate noise in your home electrical system.’
A few hours into this series, and there is still not a shred of scientific evicence that support the idea that high end cables makes an audible difference. Meanwhile at the “other camp” some of the best measuring equippment is being used to very clearly disprove that these cables have any chance of making an audible impact. Anything that is possible to measure tells us that it doesnt matter. You are also suddenly doubling down on your opinion that blind listening tests are somehow not valid or necessary, which kind of tells us that you tried it and could not discern a difference.
It’s better to invest your money to fix room acoustics than buying power cable at the same price
Thanks I now understand, I have to keep explaining on forums my Musical Fidelity power amp doesn’t need an external conditioner.
Power amps usually have big beefy power supplies with lots of filtering.
Welcome to the ongoing world of the Church of Danny. Danny science can say anything….but don’t you dare disagree else you will be excommunicated!
If you instead want to see what really matters, instead of Danny’s “suck the life right out of your wallet” nonsense, then you could consider a YouTube channel that actually follows science, like the recently started and insanely fast growing audio science review YouTube channel.
You won’t find arrogant nonsense there, and you will actually learn useful stuff.
I am an electrical engineer. I did extensive testing on power cables from alu to copper to silver using state of the art equipment. And I could not find any difference in measurements. Now the equipment is much, much more sensitive than the human ear. My conclusion is: if the equipment cannot measure any difference, nor the ear. In my opinion a regular $10 cable sounds the same as $1000 cable. It matter the state of your mind when you listen to music.
I am looking forward to the day that a consensus of established audio reviewers conduct blind listening tests publicly . If they are so confident in their belief that expensive cables will make a significant improvement in sound quality ,why has a demonstration of these claims not taken place . Obviously there will be an audible difference . What needs to be demonstrated is that the expensive cables will produce significantly better sound . If these experts can consistently recognize the difference between the stock cables and the upscale cables I would give serious consideration to upgrading . If in fact the difference is obvious , why are they so reluctant to conduct this experiment publicly and put the issue to rest ?
Any company designing a “high end” piece of electronics is going to filter their power supply circuitry from the input through the rectifier. Of course a cord can introduce (antenna) noise that falls outside the band power supplies filter but the cord that came with the gear should be the optimum cord for that piece of equipment. If it’s not then that company should be ashamed.
I understand why people don’t believe him it’s really simple if you can tell the difference in you via wire and you literally can hear the difference it’s great if you can’t then return it and spend your money on something else but it’s true when he says I even bought shitty replacement wire for a TV and there was less noise in the picture on a TV on a crappy TV back in the day so of course it works
Danny,
I read/viewed all or most of the information on Shunyata’s web site that you referred me to and find some of it worthwhile and informative, however Shunyata’s emphasis on improving the instantaneous current capability and building essentially high current filter choke power cords to then limit the instantaneous current to reduce the power supply generated harmonics of the power line frequency is a high stakes (cost) balancing act that the available documentation I saw does not follow through with any objective evidence of an audible benefit. Kind of strange given their very well done and professional approach to their videos.
I have no doubt that the products are very well built and actually provide the stated goals they mention, but other than your opinion and the opinions of others that hear beneficial results, there seems to be no available objective or widely agreed on subjective data on the actual audible benefit to using Shunyata’s or other companies expensive and esoteric power cables.
Lastly, while I am interested in the science of audio, I am more interested in avoiding problems or potential problems. I do not use any power cables or even speaker cables really because I run on large battery power and actively crossover and power my X-MTM Encores with amplifiers resting atop the speakers and short speaker wire leads to the drivers. This is the wave of the future I believe.
You know, it’s remarkable that Danny judges speakers on frequency response, phase and resonance graphs (you know, science) alone, with no regard to how it sounds, then tells us that you can’t measure the difference between cables and that we should trust our ears.
The trouble with Danny lately is that he uses strictly measurements – actual science – for “improving” speakers without regard to how they sound (many sound great to begin with), sells improvement kits whose results you may actually hate, then recommends cables (he also sells) whose effects he can’t measure, but assures you that they make a difference in sound.
If you are not happy with your speaker, get a better one. Don’t expect a difference if you wave a magic wand over yours with nebulous cable claims. Then again, ignorance is surely bliss.
Danny surely knows what’s he’s doing. That’s what bugs me. He’s selling! I know electrical theory and his little inductor trick was just that – a trick. It had no bearing on whether one cable is better than another. Yet people like you and many others have taken his word as gospel and more than a few have spent their hard earned money on vaporware and promises.
Danny, I usually enjoyed yor Videos regarding crossovers, but you are missing fundamental education about electronics. Sorry to say that, but you are destroying what you have built up over years with that stupid cable nonsense. Greetings from Austria
I am a vintage audio enthusiast with 20 years of experience in microelectronics. It makes me worried about the stuff Danny is talking about cables and interference. People with proper background will understand. Well, honestly, I am disappointed!!!
Actually our customers have been asking for this information. Some people are actually interested in taking their systems to another level.
if you listen vintage (old) you are not a audiophile…
this is the second dumbest thing I’ve read on Youtube today…. but it’s early. So this might be the 5th dumbest thing by the end of the day…
So what makes the most cost sense is a good cable out of the wall into a good RF noise filter/power conditioner, into a good distribution box that everything is plugged into with the factory power cables.
So you are telling me the 3ft of wire from the socket on the wall has huge effect? What about the 20 year old 2.5 twin and earth running past my fridge, switch mode television, microwave oven and countless other harmonic sources, then to the bit of 25mm SWA that comes from the dis board at the end of the road along with everybody else’s electronic stuff into a fairly ancient 11KV transformer that I can see from my supplier’s handy online grid view is usually overloaded, that goes onto an underground HV that was also designed in times of incandescent bulbs and motor loads.
The supplies in my area are very much better than they used to be. We haven’t had a multiple brown-out and low voltage lasting seconds for many years. We do get the occasional ‘out’ but it’s a clean off, time and back on. The cables in the road blow up on occasion, but for a 1970s install, it’s pretty good. I’m absolutely sure they could not take into account all the harmonics and impulsive supply requirements of our modern equipment, take into account wifi, Homeplug, meter signalling and all the other stuff on our supplies. Earthing practice in the UK has always been pretty good, but the EV charging point up the road probably gives that a good test in terms of HF EMC as well as harmonic distortions.
I see Texas has the odd supply problem recently too.
Assuming that the 110V/230V at your socket is clean, sinusoidal and with a perfect earth and return neutral is a bit silly. Putting an expensive cable to ‘smooth it out’ is sillier still. Yea, so another unlike.
Fancy cables are just that, fancy cables. Just use quality cables (50 dollar ones, not 5000) and everything will be fine.
That is perfectly fine for yourself, but why are you trying so hard to make everyone else believe in your religion? If your happy with the performance of system, why does it matter if others want more from their rigs?
Religion? Trying hard to convert others? What the heck are you talking about?
He’s referring to the religion of science.
lol, there is no such thing
Debatable. Science can be dogmatic just like religion.
Not debatable in my mind, sure scientists can be dogmatic, doesn’t make science dogmatic and certainly not a religion.
Put wine in an expensive bottle – it will taste better. They even made brain scans: the pleasure centre in brain lights up. The person tasting it, not “only believes” it is better, he actually enjoys it more,. Never underestimate the power of placebo!
True but cheaper stuff can be really good and expensive stuff can be not so good. On average more money will get you better stuff. Up till some point and then it’s just about more features.
Emperors New Clothes – only those who are clever will be able to see the Emperors new clothes – Only those with trained hearing can hear what a “special AC mains cable” has on a fully rectified, smoothed DC power supply that engineers have spent many hours designing to ensure it supplies a super smooth supply and manages the sudden demands of dynamic music from the amplifier.
Wire is wire… Why don’t you apply what you do to crossover to cables.. show us the data, wave form… Now that’s real science
Tomi Engdahl says:
10 Things I USED to BELIEVE about HiFi and Home Theater & what changed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enJZqpOY3JI
Over the years the things I held true about hifi and home theater have changed. If you were like me, you might have obsessed over things like: are expensive hifi cables worth it; if class D is bad; do you need to worry about audio burn-in, digital audio is better than vinyl; what are the best high end audio investments; and do specs really matter? If this sounds like you, then maybe this video can help. I am in no way saying I am the only person with the right answer. If you happen to believe in some or all of these things that’s okay too. Everyone’s Hifi/Home Theater journey is different. This is mine!
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do Audiophile Cables Matter? Here’s PROOF!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC0s6KqQz3g
This is not proof, all he’s doing is showing how to use a standard wire as an antenna. Don’t mean you can hear the differences in cables
I will argue that in basic systems, it is more difficult to hear differences between cables. However, if you have a high end, revealing system, the differences are pretty obvious. It’s not voodoo. I understand not wanting to spend major money on cables; I am the same. I build my own cables for a fraction of the cost and yes, the differences are outstanding compared to the monoprice cables I used to sport. Instead of turning a deaf ear, you might want to listen to Danny. He knows what he’s talking about and you can learn a lot from him.
Nope. I own a pretty high end system. I used to have Kimber 8TC speaker cables and had lots of noise from my speakers. Speaker cables were not responsible for this. It was a ground loop coming from my pc’s power supply that once managed to break, my system went dead silent. Afterwards, I’ve changed speaker cables to lower priced Chord Carnivals and also went XLR all the way. I can’t hear noise even if I stick my ear to the tweeter. So, myth busted..!!
Tomi Engdahl says:
What truth? The only thing Danny Richie of GR Research has proven is that he doesn’t understand science or electronics or he doesn’t care about other people enough that he perpetuate lies. His test methodology is invalid.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Upgrade power cables or audio cables first?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilz6ML8IWgY
If you’re on a limited budget what’s better to upgrade first? Power or audio cables? And, why?
More important to have your system tested out with whatever you wanna buy so as to ensure it works for the buyer. Demos at the store with their system is not the best way to go.
do you need the high end power cable if you have a power plant? Why don’t you offer the option of regular, good or great cables with the units you sell?
A successful double blind cable test would prove once and for all that cables make a difference….. but a failed test would hurt business, so I’m guessing that is something we’ll never see.
What douchery. As you as you mention audiophile power cables, I start laughing. Save the money and invest it or give it to charity.
I put several thousand pounds into mains cables and couldn’t tell a difference from ANY of them, including all manor of custom kit built with top of the range Furutech, pure silver, high end fuses etc. I put in black star interconnects which made a huge difference to the sound. These were up against custom high purity silver, highest quality copper etc. On the speaker cables having used all sorts, I ended up with using some custom made ZAVFINO 1877PHONO speaker cabling. BIG difference. So my advice is forget the power cables, do these as the very last thing. A high end rack also made a massive difference to sound (particularly for me any my Lampizator / ARC set up). I’m yet to hear any decent difference with power cables, certainly isn’t worth the money. Look for Black Star as a cable it’ll blow your mind. By the way my speakers are £20000 Focal Utopia’s that are massively resolving with a £13000 Dac so I have the kit to prove this!
By the way you should mention room treatment! Few people starting out know anything about it.
Canare star quad with some reasonable connectors is my goto for interconnects and a power cable big enough to easily satisfy the device’s appetite. Courtesy cables are never meant to be used long term, just for a basic system aliveness test.
Tomi Engdahl says:
What is and isn’t snake oil? Audiophiles speak up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T8BsJT58KE
I put the question to a group of audiophiles, what is snake oil, and their answers will surprise you! Feel free to add your opinion in the comments below.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Stop RF “Radio Frequency” Interference! [Ways To Solve Noise Issues]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS7SvoT8Ivw
Stop RF “Radio Frequency,” and EMI “Electromagnetic Interference.” See how noisy your household and office devices are! Here are some ways to help you locate, and make your space quieter. Click the SHOW MORE tab below for links.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Anything that does not stand up to rigorous blind testing is snake oil.