Audio trends and snake oil

1,282 Comments

1. May 28, 2021 at 7:05 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   It’s the physical barrier that impedes the flow of current in the cable. At lower frequencies, it’s down mostly to the resistive property of the actual wire. At higher (audio) frequencies, other properties of the cable come into play such as the insulation material and its thickness.

   Why Audio Cables Sound Different
   https://www.audioresurgence.com/2019/09/why-audio-cables-sound-different.html

   First off, let me make it very clear:Do audio cables make a difference to sound

   I do not fall into the ‘naysayer’ camp of audiophiles who claim that all cables sound the same.
   Nor am I in the camp of audiophiles who claim that expensive cables must sound better than cheaper cables just because they’re more expensive.

   Conclusion #1 – Cable properties can be measured. In doing so we find many measurable differences between different cables designed to do the same job. These measurable differences are quantifiable in the context of how they will impact the passage of audio signals, hence how they will impact the sound.

   Therefore audio cables can and do affect how the music sounds.

   Conclusion #2 – Since each Interconnecting cable has its own set of electrical properties that impact the passage of signal, they should be considered as an actual component in a three-component ‘electrical system’. An example of a 3-component electrical system in this context is a preamp and power amp with their interconnecting cables. Changing any one of the three components will introduce a new set of electrical properties into the equation. The new component’s properties may act sympathetically with the remaining components, or not. Therefore the resultant sound might be better, or not. Since even inexpensive cables have a set of electrical properties which in most cases do not impede the passage of signal any more so than expensive cables designed for the same purpose, we can conclude by saying that:

   Cost need not have any bearing on how a cable will ‘sound’. (assuming the requisite level of competence in design and construction).

   How And Why Cables Sound Different and How We Draw Conclusions on Which Cable Sounds ‘Better’

   Let me unpack that heading a little more and lay down a couple of simple but necessary provisos. Firstly, you can hear the difference in cables in audio playback systems which are not quite so resolving of detail. You can generally hear MORE OF THE DIFFERENCE between cables in a more resolving system. This is basic common sense.

   Secondly, the differences we hear when evaluating any cables or components need to be analyzed both objectively and subjectively for them to be fully understood and appreciated. Generally, when we listen to different cables or different components, we make our initial decisions on how they compare using primarily subjective reasoning. “That one just sounds better to my ears”, for example. Over more prolonged listening we start to introduce the element of objectivity into our reasoning and decision making. This can result in a cascade of different observations relating to the overall perceived “quality” of one cable/component versus another, which will often produce conflicts and contradictions in what we think about what we are hearing and what we think might be construed as better or worse.

   Why Higher Cable Cost Doesn’t Necessarily Mean Better Audible Performance

   The next consideration to deal with is that of cost. Here we’ll look at things just a little more technically to help you understand why cheap cables can easily outperform more expensive cables in YOUR system.

   Let’s approach this via a circuitous route, by posing two questions: “Why do manufacturers go to such great lengths to make their exotic cables if you’re saying they can be outperformed by cheap cables, and why does anyone buy them?”

   The answer isn’t so simple. There are legitimate reasons to consider and I’ll list a couple of those below. The remaining rationale I’m afraid to say can be found at the confluence of a smoke and mirror approach to marketing by unscrupulous manufacturers (the trade press also), and the somewhat gullible* nature of some of us who own quality audio systems.

   * I thought about a different choice of adjective since ‘gullible’ is perhaps a little unfair. Substitute ‘non-technical’ if you won’t admit to being gullible, it’s all good. You can also roll into the equation things like male pride and ego, bragging rights, and the concept of keeping up with the Joneses (or the rest of your peer group in this case).

   So, why do we buy expensive audio cables?

   People want new things to buy and that drives people to create new things to sell. But not everyone wants their chair to have the same square legs as other chairs, so there’s a consumer-driven need to create more choice and these choices must be available at different price points to satisfy the buying market from its low end all the way up to the top. [True]
   It’s important to use quality cables in a high-end audio system because they pass important low-level signals [True]
   The perception created mostly by the audio press is that of ‘cables are components’ [True] so as much time, energy, and money should be poured into cable selection as with any other active component. [False]
   Using exotic components and esoteric manufacturing techniques to build audio cables means that more of the precious low-level signal will get from point A to point B unmolested. Obviously these exotic cables come at a cost, but it’s worth it given the investment you already have in your system. [False, mostly]

   What are the properties that have an effect on the sound of a cable?

   Let’s keep it relatively simple and think in terms of an active preamp connected to a solid-state stereo power amp by a pair of RCA Interconnects. (It could be any two components, the principal is the same).

   In the minds of the uninitiated, a cable is just a conduit between two active components and it isn’t expected that it should alter the sound in any way, how could it? Well, we’ve determined that cables have measurable electrical properties and therefore is ‘active’ in how it affects the final sound that we hear through the speakers.

   Well in actual fact, it is powered – it is powered by the signal flowing through it which interacts electrically with the cable which is carrying it. The result of the interaction changes the electrical properties of the actual flowing signal hence it has some impact on what we finally get to hear. You could say in a roundabout way that the sum total of all the different electrical interactions between cable and signal equals the characteristic property of the cable.

   If we can’t measure these interactions then they don’t exist, right? Yes. But we can and do measure them. So what are they?

   Cable Impedance (Ohms) – Think about impedance in the literal sense if it makes it easier. It’s the physical barrier that impedes the flow of current in the cable. At lower frequencies, it’s down mostly to the resistive property of the actual wire. At higher (audio) frequencies, other properties of the cable come into play such as the insulation material and its thickness. (the term we use for this is the insulation dielectric, which has an electrical value measured generally in picofarads.

   So at audio frequencies, the signal passing through the conductor interacts with the conductor insulation, and the properties of the insulation make a difference to this interaction – hence it matters what the insulation is and its physical relationship (distance) to the signal carrying conductor.

   Hence the impedance value of the cable as a whole is affected by different kinds of interaction between signal and cable (including jacket) and is also affected by the type of signal passing through it.

   Capacitance (microfarads or picofarads) – occurs between pairs of conductors and also between individual current-carrying conductors and their insulation.

   How can the cable insulation act as a capacitor? Quite simply, all insulators have the capacity to be electrically charged. Insulation is charged by the alternating form of the signal passing through the conductor and when the signal is removed the insulation releases its charge back into the signal carrying conductor, just like a capacitor. The properties of the insulation (material type(s) and its thickness) determine to what extent it will absorb a charge and how this charge will be stored and released. So every cable has the capacity to hold a charge within itself and it is a measurable property, usually measured in picofarads and termed “dielectric losses” or “dielectric absorption”.

   Since it takes time for the cable insulation to reach its charged state, and then for it to discharge, this time-lapse effectively interferes with the signal being transmitted through the main conductor. We can measure this effect by sending digital square wave data pulses through the conductor and looking at the pulses as they come out from the conductor. Pulses passed through a cable with high capacitance come out of the cable looking more like a “saw-tooth” waveform, rather than their square wave inputs. The peak amplitudes of the wave are lowered as energy has been taken from the signal to charge the insulation. The additional ‘peaks’ as shown by the saw-tooth waveform are created when the insulation discharges voltage back into the signal. The distance between peaks in this sawtooth waveform is a time value, SO: we can create an audibly noticeable effect where:

   As it is passing through the wire, a piece of the original signal is removed and held in storage by the insulation.
   At some later interval, the stored signal is discharged back into the passing source signal.
   Since the section of source signal from which the stored signal was removed has now passed through the wire, the stored portion of the signal is released back into a part of the signal where it doesn’t naturally belong. Obviously, this is all linked to the signal frequency and happens very quickly in the time domain, but still:

   – You’ve heard the term ‘smearing’ and ‘muddy sounding’ as attributes of the sounds of cables, right? Now you know how these effects are caused. One take away given the above is that the lower the capacitance of the cable, the better it performs (audibly) at higher frequencies.

   “Skin Effect” – This is likely the least understood of the anomalies surrounding cable properties and it’s undoubtedly audible. Skin effect is a fairly complex phenomenon and I’m not going to get into it here in any detail, so go ahead and Google it if you need to learn more. Basically, the different frequencies of an alternating signal pass through different layers of a conductor with higher frequencies tending generally to flow mostly near the outside surface of the conductor. So the higher frequencies of the signal are pushed away from the center and towards the surface which has the unwanted consequence of increasing the effective resistance of the conductor since less conductive material is available for the passage of signal. It also places higher frequencies in closer physical proximity to the conductor insulation so the capacitive effect on higher frequencies is different than those with lower frequencies. The audible manifestation in a cable designed without due consideration to skin effect might by an excessive brightness or hardness in the upper frequencies.

   RFI/EMI – The environment into which the cable is placed wrt Radio Frequency Interference and Electro-magnetic radiation.

   Thus considering our example with the pair of RCA cables between a preamp and power amp: the way the cable affects the sound of the system as a whole will depend not on the cable itself, but on at least three important things, two of which have nothing to do with the cable itself:

   The electrical properties of the preamp output (its output impedance*)
   The electrical properties of the cable (all the measurable values we’ve talked about above)
   The electrical properties of the power amp (its input impedance*)

   [*The preamp is an active component and has an output impedance which is basically the total impedance of its internal circuitry as it appears at its output. The power amplifier has an input impedance at its input terminals which is also basically the total impedance of its internal circuitry as it appears at the input. Audio equipment with phono connectors usually works on what is termed the voltage matching concept, where a very low output impedance is designed to be present at the source (preamp in this case) and a much higher input impedance at the power amp. A basic rule of thumb in audio circuit design is that the output impedance of the preamp should be at least 10 times lower than the input impedance of the power amp].

   So what we have with our trio of active components is an isolated electrical ‘system’ where the preamp and power amp interact with the cable connecting them together and the cable itself has active properties that impact the electrical system as a whole.

   Has anyone figured out the practical problem in all of this, yet?

   The problem is – “How the hell are we supposed to know what cable has the requisite electrical properties that are going to work sympathetically with the two active components it is connecting together?” [By ‘sympathetically’, we basically mean that the compound effect should sound good to our ears!]

   The answer is, we don’t.

   We think we know certain things about the cable that are desirable elements in its design and construction.

   For example, we think, generally, that a lower capacitance cable is going to be better for us. That might lead us to choose a cable designed with a low dielectric constant insulator, such as Teflon. Since capacitance is effected by cable length we try to keep it ‘as short as possible’.

   We think, generally, that a lower resistance cable conductor is going to make our cable sound better than something with higher resistance and impedance. So we select oxygen-free copper or five 9’s silver as a conductor and we pay attention to the cable’s length, its gauge, hence, its overall impedance.

   But they’re just a few of the basic electrical properties in a complex electrical system. We can’t possibly know how every cable will perform in areas such as skin-effect when passing an alternating audio signal. What about EMI/RFI susceptibility in our Teflon insulated silver wire with no external shielding? There are just too many unknown variables that are fed into our equation with too few electrical constants.

   The end result is that we CAN perform due diligence when selecting our cables by looking at their electrical properties, reading the subjective reviews of others using the cable in a completely different system, paying much more than makes any sense, in the hope that more money equates to better performance, etc, but all we can do from there is to simply hope for the best.

   Cable Performance Conclusion.

   The main points that should be staring you in the face right now are that you cannot predict audible performance by studying the electrical specifications of a cable. You can’t even safely dismiss a cable using unconventional materials or design concepts as being audibly inferior without first trying it in your system.

   Reply
2. May 28, 2021 at 7:15 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   Sound System Interconnection
   https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/note110.html

   Reply
3. May 28, 2021 at 7:40 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   What makes an excellent Interconnect?
   http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/what-makes-an-excellent-interconnect

   Minimize Capacitance

   Interconnects transfer analog voltage signals between components. The voltages involved range from microvolts to a volt or so, but the currents involved are always extremely small. The currents are small because the load that the interconnect drives is generally between 10-100K ohms. This is the input impedance of the component being driven. There is virtually zero power transfer with interconnects.

   Because there is basically zero power transfer, it is not necessary for the driving component to be capable of driving much power. As a result, most components are designed with an output impedance of between 7 and 200 ohms. Lower is better because the driver is less “sensitive” to the load. However, the load is actually comprised of a resistive part and a capacitive part. This capacitance is caused by the integrated circuit or transistor packaging, the printed circuit board traces and the silicon itself. This capacitance presents a load to the driving component. If the capacitance is too large, the high-frequencies will begin to attenuate or decrease due to the loading on the driver. The input capacitance of a component is generally never characterized (not in the specs), but this is actually as important as the resistance. The interconnect also adds to this capacitance and can actually contribute more to the total capacitance than the receiving component. It is therefore an object to minimize the capacitance in an excellent interconnect.

   The capacitance of in interconnect is a function of its length. The longer it is, the higher the capacitance. This is why interconnect length should generally be minimized. Interconnect capacitance is also function of geometry and dielectric material. Capacitance is minimized by spacing the two conductors apart as much as possible and by avoiding parallelism. It is also minimized by using low dielectric-constant materials between the two conductors.
   How does Empirical Audio minimize interconnect capacitance?

   Air dielectric is used between the two conductors where possible
   Where air is not possible, Teflon or other low-dielectric constant materials are used
   Conductor parallelism is avoided by geometry
   Conductors are spaced apart

   Minimize skin-effect

   Skin-effect occurs when the high-frequency currents flow on the outer “skin” of the conductors whereas lower frequencies have more uniform current distribution across the conductor cross-section. This happens when too large a gauge is chosen for the conductors. The effect is that the impedance (primarily inductance and capacitance) is different for low frequencies than high frequencies. This difference in impedance can cause attenuation and phase shifts in high-frequency passages relative to low-frequency passages, causing a smearing effect to the music. If a sufficiently small gauge is chosen for the conductors, all frequencies are “forced” to flow more uniformly in the conductors, effective eliminating skin-effect. Skin-effect is also a function of conductor material.

   How does Empirical Audio minimize skin-effect?

   Careful selection of conductor gauge and stranding to insure optimum low and high-frequency response.
   99.99% Pure Silver conductors

   Minimal use of conformal coatings

   Conformal coatings (insulation) on conductors create a non-uniform dielectric medium around the conductors. This dielectric material stores energy from the conductors in the form of charge. Similar to a battery, the dielectric material prevents the conductors from discharging immediately and completely when the music waveform demands this.

   Reply
4. May 28, 2021 at 7:41 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   Interconnect capacitance
   https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/interconnect-capacitance.734970/

   Capacitance is measured between center wire and shield. Best is to use specialized ESR/LCR meter.

   Capacitance is measured between the shield and center conductor. You can make the connections at either end of the cable, or one connection at each end — it doesn’t make any difference in the reading.

   Raw cable manufacturer websites are a good source for typical pF/foot specifications.

   Suffice it to say, if the source is high impedance (MM cartridges, some tube front ends etc) cable capacitance can cause HF rolloff over long runs. ie, look to suitable cables for decent matches.

   If the source is low impedance (SS preamps, CD players etc) the capacitance and run length would have to be extremely long to cause any audible issues. ie, your runs can be 20ft+ or more with no issues whatsoever.

   For normal 1-3m lengths and audio signals, cable capacitance for line level sources and/or high impedance front ends is pretty much irrelevant.

   s John has already explained, it depends. Foremost it’s important for phono use with regular inductance MMs and MIs, where the inductance of the cart together with the cable and input capacity will determine the electrical resonance frequency (formula: f(res) = 1 / (2 x pi x (L x C)^0.5)). Whereas for MC cartridges in general as well as for very low inductance MMs and MIs it usually is less critical, ’cause unless the cabling and/or input capacity were very high, the electrical resonance frequency will be far above the audible range anyway.

   And your wording is somewhat incorrect, ’cause there is no capacity of the shield as such, ’cause the shield alone would represent only one pole. Or in other words: In the context of cable capacity you can basically regard a cable as a plate capacitor that’s just somewhat unusually shaped, so that in a regular (= with only one inner conductor) coax cable, that inner conductor would represent one plate and the shield the other.

   With multiple inner conductors things become more complicated, because then one will have several partial capacities to consider (conductor to conductor and conductor to shield) as well as how exactly the cable is wired/configured. For example, in case of a “twinax” cable with two inner conductors in unbalanced line-interconnect use, one could for example use both inner conductors for the signal and the shield for the signal ground, in which case the effective capacity would be twice the conductor-to-shield capacity, or for another example one inner conductor for the signal and the other plus the shield (and that regardless, whether that’s connected on both ends or on one end only) for the signal ground, in which case the effective capacity would be the sum of the conductor-to-conductor and the conductor-to-shield capacity. Interestingly even conductors that aren’t connected at all still have an impact on capacity, apparently due to electrostatic induction (= elektrostatische Influenz over here), so that using one inner conductor of our twinax cable for the signal, the other for signal ground and leaving the shield unconnected would give us an effective capacity of the sum of the conductor-to-conductor and half of the conductor-to-shield capacity.

   The latter is why I typically recommend to keep it simple and use regular coax for unbalanced phono, if one wants to keep capacity on the low side and has no reason to try “pseudo-balanced” cabling (with the shield only connected on one end) due to EMI problems. And, of course, those partial capacities and their effects also have to be considered, when one is measuring such multiconductor cables, in order to correctly determine the partial capacities…

   Greetings from Munich!

   Reply
5. May 28, 2021 at 7:44 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   The impedance of any cable (yes, they all have it!) only becomes an influence when the cable approaches roughly a quarter of a wavelength (in wire) long or longer. Short lengths simply act as a capacitor. (You can read up on this in various places on the internet, also showing how to calculate basic impedance.)

   In practice, for audio, this amounts to a very long cable – orders of tens of meters. So unless you are running a studio, and a large one at that, cable impedance is not relevant – again: for audio, that is! [As was previously well explained, most cables on the market have a type number (RG59, RG58, RG6 and such) and the capacitance can be easily looked up in tables.]
   https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/interconnect-capacitance.734970/

   Both RG-59 and RG-6 are 75 ohms characteristic impedance.

   RG-58 is 50 ohms.

   As mentioned by Audiovet, that part is immaterial for analog audio as it’s typically not impedance matched such as in RF or video systems (or coaxial SPDIF/digital).

   I’d suggest Belden 1505F (RG-59 style) as it has decently low capacitance, copper stranded core and copper double braid shield. Nicely flexible too.

   With moving magnet cartridges cable capacitance is important. The incorrect amount will cause either a high frequency peak or a roll off. It does not cause a loss of signal. Many manufacturers of moving magnet cartridges state in the specs what the correct capacitive load should be. Shure is a prime example of this.

   Moving coil cartridges are quite often sensitive to the resistive load.

   JoeESP9, Sep 24, 2016
   #15
   lini
   lini
   just me…

   Messages:
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   Location:
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   Joe: Depends on how one would define loss of signal – in this case it would be less of a loss of signal in the sense of a total loss, but more of a frequency-dependant loss of signal level above the resonance frequency…

   JoeESP9, Sep 25, 2016
   #17
   ConradH
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   Moderately low capacitance is desirable, though it will invariably be fine if the length is short, since capacitance is proportional to length. IMO, it’s also good if the dielectric has low absorption and dissipation, so polypropylene, Teflon and a couple others are the ones to look for. That said, I can’t really tell the difference between short cables no matter what they are. Phono cables are the most critical, and should never be longer than necessary.

   IME, for everything but phono cables with MM cartridges cable capacitance is mostly a non-issue.

   For MM phono cartridges the cable’s capacitance gets added to the input capacitance of the phono preamp. Many higher end phono preamps allow for changing the capacitive load. Those that handle LOMC cartridges usually include adjustable resistive load.

   Specs for Shure M97XE:
   Output: 4.0mV RMS at 5 cm/sec

   Stylus:Diamond tip, Polished natural gemstone, Elliptical, Side x front radii: 0.2 x 0.7 mil

   Cantilever: Shure Type II – Very Low Mass, Heat-treated aluminum alloy / tubular, 1.0 mil wall thickness / 20 mil diameter

   Frequency Range: 20 to 22,000 Hz

   Tracking Force: 0.75-1.50g

   Weight: 6.6g

   Stereo Channel Balance: Within 2 dB

   Channel Separation: @1 kHz – 25 dB

   Recommended Load: 47 kilohms in parallel with 250 pf

   Height: 15.875mm

   Amplitude: 80 µm at 400 Hz

   Although many manufacturers do not specify a specific capacitive load I believe that the load effects all MM cartridges.

   Reply
6. May 28, 2021 at 7:50 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   Interconnect Inductance vs. Capacitance
   https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/interconnect-inductance-vs-capacitance

   How do the inductance and capacitance of ICs impact the sound? I have seen some ICs that have low inductance but high capacitance. On the other hand, some ICs have high inductance but low capacitance. One manufacturer even claims that his higher models have higher capacitance.

   High capacitance can be a tough load for consumer grade gear – best to stick to short runs or low capacitance IC’s. You can lose dynamics and in some extreme cases you get distortion.

   Assuming you are referring to analog ic’s carrying audio frequencies (as opposed to ic’s carrying digital signals or other high frequency signals such as video), inductance is likely to be insignificant.

   High capacitance may cause the highs to be rolled off, particularly if the component driving the cable has a high output impedance. That is because the output impedance of the driving component and the capacitance of the cable form a low pass filter, having a bandwidth corresponding to the product of the output impedance and the capacitance.

   It is true that some very high-end cables have highish capacitance. That is one example of how some high-end cables are designed to be non-neutral. It is also an example of how cable performance can be system-dependent, because the effects of the capacitance will be dependent on component output impedance.

   Regards,
   – Al

   Al has given you great advice. Another source of info on this topic is from the Blue Jean Cable website.

   Common VOM’s (volt-ohm-milliameters), whether digital or analog, can measure resistance directly. Some digital vom’s also have the ability to measure capacitance. There are also separate instruments specifically designed to measure capacitance. I am not aware of any low-cost instruments that will measure inductance, although there may be some.

   I had said that inductance is insignificant for interconnects carrying analog audio signals. But it may be significant in a speaker cable, if the inductance is particularly high, as a result of the cable being long and/or the inductance per unit length of the particular cable being high. In which case it would attenuate the treble somewhat (inductance attenuates or blocks high frequencies).

   Unusually high capacitance in a speaker cable can cause some amplifiers to operate out of their comfort zone, or to become unstable. It will not, however, produce the kind of high frequency roll-off I described for interconnect cables, because the output impedance of a power amplifier is vastly lower than the output impedance of a line-level component.

   As for power cords, obviously sufficient gauge (meaning low enough resistance) is required to support the maximum amount of current that may be drawn through it. Beyond that, my opinion is that we enter the realm of metaphysics (definition: “a priori speculation upon questions that are unanswerable to scientific observation, analysis, or experiment”), and anecdotal evidence of differences is about all we can expect.

   Regards,
   – Al

   For a twisted pair design, the capacitance and the inductance are a function of the distance between the conductors relative to their diameters and are somewhat inversely related. The closer the conductors the less inductance and the more capacitance. The further apart, the more inductance and the less capacitance. For instance, a lot of ICs might have a pair of conductors that helix around a core that keeps them at some distance in order to achieve a certain design point (this is just twisted pair from a design point). Similarily, the thickness of the insulation itself can keep the conductors separated at some distance in a twisted pair that does not have a ‘core’. The capacitance is also related to the type of dielectric used (or more specifically, the effective relative permitivity of the dielectric that the conductors experience). There are other cable geometries that are used that will tend to push the impedances one way or another. In general, all of the impedances (resistance, capacitance, inductance) scale linearly with the length of cable so shorter is better if you want to minimize impedances.

   It’s probably easiest to try to get the vendor’s specs on what impedance a given cable exhibits – if they’ve bothered to measure them. Measuring inductance and capacitance typically requires a pretty good (expensive) piece of equipment. Low capacitance and low inductance are both desirable, but since you usually hurt one to help the other, going two far in either direction tends to be a mistake. However, I agree with Almarg that capacitance is a bigger factor for ICs while inductance (and resistance) is generally a bigger factor for speaker cables due to the differences in the amount of current involved between the two (e.g. harder for a low current system to charge a capacitance while harder for a high current system to overcome inductance).

   Other things that are reputed to affect the “sound” of cabling are the purity of the conductor (e.g. OFC (99.99%), UPOCC (99.9999%), solid conductors supposedly better than stranded conductors, the type of conductor (copper, silver, silver coated copper), effective cross section of total conductors (more cross section, less DC resistance), diameter of individual insulated conductors (smaller gauge wires show less variation in internal impedance with frequency (due to skin effect, DC travels through the entire conductor – higher frequencies move to the outsides of the conductor – so some vendors will say you should have, for instance, a number of smaller gauge conductors (say 8 x 21 AWG) rather than one large conductor (say 1 x 12 AWG) for speaker cables), surface of conductor (smooth/polished is better), the type of dielectric (actual physics here that affects capacitance), the geometry of the conductors within the cable , the mechanical stability of the conductors (e.g. damping and isolation), how well the connector or wire makes contact with the terminals (e.g. type of plating on connectors, type of metals in connectors, surfaces of connectors, contact points of connectors, contact enhancement treatments, oxidation on connectors, vibrations in connectors, etc.), shielding from RFI and EM radiation (more important on ICs due to low voltages and currents and subsequent application of the noise through your amplifier), and various types of conditionings like cryogenic freezing. However, there is great controversy over which, if any, of these types of things has an impact on the ‘sound’ or whether “great” sound can be achieved with a ‘budget’ cable.

   To be honest, most cables spec’s are not going to be a problem from an electrical standpoint – unless perhaps your amp is sensitive to highly capacitive loads (most are designed not to be) or you are running at lot more than say 8 feet of cable. And most of the cable specs are not going to tell you something that will indicate whether it sounds better or worst to you in your system. Even if the cable were to have characteristics that introduce frequency distortion – perhaps you like attenuated highs on your ICs because your gear is bright for instance.

   However, most audio folks say that they hear differences between different cable’s sounds. Most differences in cables’ sounds are ‘subtle’ and perhaps a matter of taste. To me, it seems to be a bit of a hit or miss operation if you are just looking at ‘spec’s. It’s not clear what measured parameters are important to the “sound” and there’s a lot of marketing hype about various other characteristics that are hard to substantiate. If you can actually audition some cables and you like one better than the other – and you feel that the difference in cost justifies the improvement, then go for it – though this could lead to a potentially un-ending cable upgrade path if you have unlimited time and resources. The next best source is likely to be discussion forums of other folks experiences with various cables on various types of equipment (particularly the ones where they decided to go from cable x to cable y).

   Keep in mind that some cables reportedly require some period of time to settle into how they will ultimately sound. If you believe in breakin (another controversy), the periods typically indicated for this transition tend to be on the order of a few days to a week or two of active (24×7) use, depending on a number of factors – though most likely related to the type of dielectric. If you are trying to compare two cables – that is also a bit of a dicey operation. Try to keep all other variables constant. Same gear, same room, same speaker placement, same relative placement of listener to the speakers. It may take you some time of listening before you decide that a particular sound is to your liking – what might sound like more definition at first might end up seeming harsh after a while. So it may take more than just flipping back and forth a few times to get to a lasting impression of whether you really like one sound versus the other. Also keep in mind that your listening room may have a much larger effect on the sound of your system than the cables so if that’s out of control – perhaps you’re better off focusing on that first before you start trying to ‘tune in’ your cables. Another rule of thumb quoted would be to not spend more than about 10-20% of your system’s cost on cabling. If you are spending more that on cabling, you might be better off buying better gear than better cables.

   Not much help here, but a lot of things to consider perhaps. From what I’m seeing, seems like perhaps a bit too focused on the capacitance vs inductance issue as the title suggests. Try measuring more with your ears than your impedance meter. However, if you are interested in some more of the technical side, this might be helpful – http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/Analog.html

   For an interconnect, there is no question you want low capacitance or the treble begins to roll off, coupled with group delay. The group delay can have a significant effect on the subjective impression of speed and dynamics of much of the music spectrum. But inductance is another matter. Inductance in an interconnect is really only relevant in that it affects the characteristic impedance of the cable. In an ideal world the characteristic impedance of an interconnect would be at, or slightly above, the output impedance of the upstream component. If the characteristic impedance of the cable is below the output impedance of the upstream component then phase errors can get audible, particularly in the bass, and is a major cause of the belief that interconnects can be system dependent. If the characteristic impedance of the cable is too far above the output impedance of the upstream component then it can act as an antenna and pick up noise and fine detail will be lost or obscured. With no standard for output impedance for audio components then one of the challenges for a designer of interconnects is how to minimize the problems of impedance mismatches. Some claim to have effectively eliminated this problem with their designs.

   It is fairly widely documented, both in this paper and in threads at this and other audio forums, that 1.5 meters is an optimal length for cd transport to dac connections, and significantly shorter lengths will increase jitter by causing the round-trip timing of reflections from the dac input, and re-reflections from the transport output, to be such that the re-reflection would arrive coincident with edges of the original waveform.

   Reply
7. May 28, 2021 at 7:50 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   PFO Audio Discourse: Why longer is generally better for an S/PDIF Digital Cable
   by Steve Nugent
   https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm

   Reply
8. May 28, 2021 at 7:50 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   And no capacitance isn’t the only thing that matters. Shielding is pretty important too, not to mention the electrical specs of the cabling. I wouldn’t buy any cables where full specs aren’t listed.
   https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/is-capacitance-in-interconnects-all-that-matters.949729/

   Reply
9. May 28, 2021 at 7:51 am

   Tomi Engdahl says:

   https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/the-truth-about-interconnects-and-cables/the-truth-about-interconnects-and-cables-page-5

   Reply
10. May 28, 2021 at 8:24 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.whathifi.com/best-buys/accessories/best-audio-cables

    Reply
11. May 28, 2021 at 9:04 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://6moons.com/audioreviews/interconnects/interconnects.html

    Wire is wire, cable is cable. Too bad this statement is invalid. It’s all the more reason to dive into this matter a little deeper and attempt to understand what factors contribute to these audible if not always measurable differences.

    Cables — and thus the species of interconnects we shall focus on in our listening tests here — are all susceptible to the laws of nature. This is where electrical, magnetic and mechanical values play their roles. Most of the time, an interconnect consists of a pair of cables where each leg handles a discrete channel. The need for both legs to be absolutely identical should be evident.

    The only thing an interested layperson ever sees of an interconnect cable is its outside. Every supplier dresses — or better yet, cloaks — their cables in the most beautiful or at least most impressive looking mantles. The ends are terminated in various RCA or XLR plugs whose insides are often potted. The remaining available observation concerns the girth of the cable. This can range from just a millimeter to several centimeters. What is going on inside the fancy cable cover remains a closed book (safe for a few makes who publish cross-sectional graphics or photographs).

    Upon taking a closer look at these conductors, we may find a single tiny wire or a bundle of complexly twisted, braided, layered, bundled or otherwise interwoven wires or wire groups wherein each conductor could be individually coated with insulation (Litz). We might find thousands of individual conductors in fact. At this level, anarchy rules and any imaginable geometry could be revealed.

    Reply
12. May 28, 2021 at 9:04 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://audiophilereview.com/cables/more-mystifying-metal-madness/

    Reply
13. May 28, 2021 at 9:05 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Using Measurements to Clear up the Cable Controversy
    Are more expensive cables worth the price?
    https://www.lifewire.com/speaker-cables-make-a-difference-3134902

    The effects of speaker cables on speaker performance can be measured and can show that changing speaker cables could have audible effects on the sound of a system.

    There is a small difference below 35 Hz; the higher-end cables actually produce less bass output from the speaker below 35 Hz, although the difference is on the order of -0.2 dB. It’s highly unlikely this would be audible, due to the ear’s relative insensitivity in this range; to the fact that most music doesn’t have much content in this range (for comparison, the lowest note on standard bass guitars and upright basses is 41 Hz); and because only large tower speakers have much output below 30 Hz. (Yes, you could add a subwoofer to go that low, but almost all of those are self-powered and thus wouldn’t be affected by the speaker cable.) You’d hear a larger difference in bass response by moving your head 1 foot in any direction.

    We didn’t get a chance to measure the electrical properties of the AudioQuest cable (the guy needed it back suddenly), but we did measure the resistance and capacitance of the QED and generic cables. (The inductance of the cables was too low for my Clio 10 FW to measure.)

    Generic 12-gauge
    Resistance: 0.0057 Ω per ft.
    Capacitance: 0.023 nF per foot

    QED Silver Anniversary
    Resistance: 0.0085 Ω per ft.
    Capacitance: 0.014 nF per foot

    Reply
14. May 28, 2021 at 9:07 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Do Speaker Cables Make a Significant Difference?
    Composition, thickness, and length matter more than price tags
    https://www.lifewire.com/speaker-cable-differences-3134603

    Before you buy speaker wires for your audio system, find the best speaker wires for your system. Then, buy wires that deliver the best quality, performance, and price. Here’s what you need to know about the material, thickness, and length of speaker wires to make the best decision.

    Wire Attributes Affecting Quality

    Speaker wires facilitate the flow of electrical impulses between a receiver and a speaker. Like any wire, its thickness (or gauge), its overall length, and its constituent materials perform differently under electrical load.

    The three major considerations are:

    Capacitance: The higher the capacitance, the more charge that a material (like a wire) holds at a given voltage.
    Inductance: The change in voltage that arises from changes in current. For speaker wires, the level of inductance is negligible.
    Resistance: The amount of energy that gets lost in transmission owing to the medium of that transmission. The lower the resistance, the more power that makes it to the speaker.

    Likewise, a wire’s performance is affected by:

    Gauge: Thicker wires (i.e., wires with lower gauge ratings) demonstrate less resistance. However, for most residential setups, an ordinary wire is fine. Unless you’re running hundreds of feet of wire or have super-premium speaker hardware, a regular 16-gauge wire is fine.
    Length: Longer wire runs increase resistance.
    Composition: Different metal types conduct electricity in different ways. Copper is cheap and features low inherent resistance, but is susceptible to corrosion if it’s exposed to air. Silver demonstrates even lower resistance but the price point relative to copper is not favorable. Gold won’t oxidize on contact with air (so it’s a great plug material) but it’s more resistant than either copper or silver so it’s not ideal for cable runs.

    When Quality Affects Audio Performance

    Assume that you’re dealing with a pure wire and not a hybridized wire that features its own built-in filters at the plugs. With a pure wire, you won’t notice a decline in audio quality until the resistance of the wire differs from the speaker’s impedance by more than 5 percent.

    Reply
15. May 28, 2021 at 9:08 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    MEASUREMENTS: Analogue RCA Interconnects.
    http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/05/measurements-analogue-rca-interconnects.html

    Remember why we got digital in the first place: robust data storage free from transmission and generational losses – in other words, resistance from corruption. By transforming data into 1′s and 0′s, we quantize the data into binary form and complexity is thus encoded in larger quantities and combinations of this quantized binary data which can be saved in a form which makes detection and correction of error possible.

    As a result, when digital ‘works’, it likewise tends to be ‘all or nothing’.

    Let’s see now how good ol’ analogue interconnects of various lengths fare.

    Here are the models being tested:

    Cable A:
    3′ freebie RCA cable that came with an old cheap DVD that has since broken. Connectors not gold plated.

    Cable B:
    3′ Radio Shack shielded RCA cable. Gold plated connectors.

    Summary:
    1. Analogue ain’t digital! Although in most ways the measurements are very similar (these are short lengths of interconnects after all), mild differences can be found.

    2. Frequency response unchanged among the cables. Interesting. Some people talk about analogue cables as “tone control”. I don’t see it using these interconnects even with longer length (there is a hint of high frequency roll-off with the 16′ cable but really this is trivial) or different conductor material. Using silver interconnects, there are no changes in the frequency response to suggest these cables sound “brighter” as some contend :-).

    3. Interesting Stereo Crosstalk performance. Stereo crosstalk looks to be sensitive to cable length. The silver cable had the least crosstalk up to 5kHz and then increased from there – this is possibly a function of the fact that it’s constructed as 2 separate cables as pictured above rather than the zip-cord arrangement of the other cables.

    4. Measures like THD should not (and in fact does not) show a difference. After all, cables are passive “components” so should not introduce harmonics into the equation. As for noise floor, I suspect if I were to test under conditions with strong RF noise the poorly shielded cables would perform worse (may try this later), but in the home environment where I tested, obviously this was not a problem even in reasonably close proximity to the laptop, DAC, and E-MU ADC.

    There you go. Analogue interconnects do make a slight difference and this is quite measurable particularly in terms of stereo crosstalk performance. Remember that these interconnects are of relatively short lengths so minor differences are really not surprising.

    Reply
16. May 28, 2021 at 9:10 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    CABLE LENGTH AND THE EFFECTS ON SOUND QUALITY
    https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/cable-length-and-the-effects-on-sound-quality/

    When it comes to cable length, the shortest length possible is almost always better. I say “almost,” because there are some exceptions, as will see.

    Cables are critically important system components responsible for protecting the fragile voltages as they are transferred from point to point among the links of the audio/video chain. No cable can do better than simply minimizing the amount of loss during that transmission, as there will indeed be signal loss as the electrons make their way through the conductors and struggle to jump the boundaries imposed by the connections at each end. So, in my opinion, better cables simply “do less harm,” or put another way, lessening the amount of signal that is lost.

    Virtually every audio or video system is a set compromises. Many times a compromise can be equipment location. Whether it be furniture restrictions, room layout, traffic path or objections from the non-audiophile co-habitants, we work around those limitations as best we can, and often than means longer cable runs.

    Generally speaking, my preference is for longer interconnects and shorter speaker cables. But, like everything else in life, there are always tradeoffs. As an example, longer unbalanced cables may be more apt to pick up noise (all cables are essentially antennae and subject to RF interference). Some preamps (especially those with a high output impedance or passive designs) may be sensitive to the additional load imposed by the cable, so a long run of interconnects may be contraindicated (or at least closely evaluated) in those instances.

    Long speaker cables can also be of concern. First in terms of the added impedance that substantial runs may add, the increased resistance can, in more extreme cases, lead to power loss. And, in my experience, there simply tends to be more loss of signal though speaker cables than through interconnects of equivalent lengths. I know some cable manufacturers may disagree (mostly from makers of cables using in line networks), but the vast majority of time long interconnects with shorter speaker cables sounds better to me. Furthermore, on a Dollar-per-foot basis, equivalent quality speaker cables are usually far more expensive than their line-level counterparts, making longer interconnects/shorter speaker cables a less expensive alternative.

    So, how long should cables be? Is there a “rule of thumb”? The answer is as short as possible! With speaker cables I like to stay under ten feet, and find eight feet to be the most popular and practical length. In a system where components are grouped closely together, one meter cables are the norm, but if the amplifiers are sited further away three to five meters isn’t uncommon. Can you hear the degradation at those lengths? Yes, you can, but it may be an acceptable trade off to accommodate other considerations. Indeed, I’ve heard great sound in systems employing five to ten meters of cable between the amp and preamp. Usually balanced cables (when interfacing true differentially-balanced components) provide better results over very long runs than can be expected with single ended cabling.

    At the beginning we said shorter is “almost” always better. Well, here are some situations where that is not the case. A digital cable, for one, is an example of where a shorter length may not be ideal. A number of manufacturers of digital gear (and cables) that I’ve spoken with suggest 1.5M as being preferable to shorter lengths, such a 1M or less. This theory applies to all digital cables including USB, SPDIF and AES/EBU.

    Reply
17. May 28, 2021 at 9:12 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Audio interconnect cables explained
    http://www.tonestack.net/articles/speaker-building/audio-interconnect-cables.html

    Electrical equivalent circuit
    The most important factor: line driver output impedance
    Frequency response of a 10 meter long cable
    Table: maximum cable length vs. output resistance and attenuation at 20 kHz
    Some notes on nonlinear distortion, phase-shift and group delay

    The subject of this analysis is unbalanced line level signal transmission. Interconnect cables that used for line level signal transmission shouldn’t be confused with S/PDIF digital interconnects or analog video cables. All use the same RCA type connector, but composite video and S/PDIF require ’75 Ohm’ coaxial cables.

    Interconnect cables connect the ‘line out’ or the ‘headphone out’ of the signal source to the ‘line in’ of the amplifier. Connectors can be RCA, XLR or headphone plugs (also known as TRS or tip-ring-sleeve). Interconnects transmit max. 2 Volt amplitude voltages and the load is more simple than a loudspeaker.

    For a detailed analysis of interconnect cables we need a relevant electrical model of the full system (equivalent circuit, RC model). If we are interested in our cable’s response up to 100 kHz (which is five times the frequency range of the human hearing!), this simple RC model is perfectly valid up to 200 meters (model is valid for ’75 Ohm’ coaxial cables up to 400 meters).

    Line level circuits use the impedance bridging principle, in which a low impedance output drives a high impedance input. In this scenario the dominant parameters are the capacitance of the cable and the output resistance of the source. The output resistance of the signal source (line driver) and the capacitance of the cable forms a low-pass filter. The higher the capacitance of the cable (the longer the cable) and the higher the output resistance of the source, the lower the cut-off frequency. Thus, the frequency response of the cable (and any electronic device) “on its own” is meaningless. Attributing characters like dynamics or soundstage to an interconnect cable is just fantasy.

    The above table refers to cables with a distributed capacitance of 300 pF/m, which is valid for the ‘cheapest’ cables. In the case of cables with polyethylene wire insulation (150 pF/m) the length values can be doubled!

    There is a small noise filter capacitor (100 pF – 330 pF) at the input of every amplifier, and its role is to prevent radio frequency noise getting into the amp. This capacitance is added to the capacitance of the cable, but it pale into insignificance in the audio range. If we want to be accurate, we can subtract one meter from a 300 pF/m cable (and two meters from a 150 pF/m cable after doubling the values).

    With a 600 Ohm line out the full audio frequency band can be transmitted within 0.1 dB error up to 14 meters (46 feet) with a ‘better’ cable and up to 7 meters (23 feet) with a cheapest, high capacitance cable. If we take into account, that modern equipments have much lower output resistance (100 – 200 Ohms), transmitting audio frequency signals in a home audio system shouldn’t be a problem.

    Nonlinear distortion is simply non-existent in audio cables. There is no need to deal with nonlinear effects, because if we don’t exceed the 0.5 dB limit at 20 kHz (which requires a long cable), the capacitance and resistance of the insulation (dielectric) will have so tiny effect on the overall response, that even the possibility of the distortion doesn’t exist. The leakage current (dielectric loss) is only significant above 1 MHz even with the worst dielectric (PVC).

    We don’t have to be afraid of phase shift (or time smearing) either. Phase shift doesn’t mean anything in itself, what is important is the change in the group delay: the varying time delay in frequency. Even for a ‘large’ 0.5 dB relative attenuation at 20 kHz the time shift between 20 Hz and 20 kHz is only 300 nanosec (which is 20 deg phase shift). This is 1000 times lower than the lowest group delay difference that a human ear can resolve in the most sensitive range (at 2 kHz).

    The audibility of group delay ‘distortion’ with the interaural time delay (ITD) are often confused. ITD is important for binaural hearing and localization, the audibility of group delay ‘distortion’ is about how humans can hear transient smearing.

    Dispersion at audio frequencies is only a problem with very long cables – cables which are at least several kilometers long. But in this case the amplitude response will be bad too, not just the phase and – what is interesting – correcting the amplitude response simply cures phase and timing problems.

    Audio cables that carry low level signals require protection against EMI (Electromagnetic Interference). RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) is only a concern at those frequencies where the cable becomes an antenna. Therefore interconnect cables are shielded and – in the vast majority of cables – the shield acts as a signal return too.

    Reply
18. May 28, 2021 at 9:14 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    The beauty of measurements
    https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/the-beauty-of-measurements/

    We are an arrogant lot believing our science can measure all that our senses can.

    Our machines cannot yet measure beauty. There are no devices, instruments, or algorithms that can say this one is X amount more beautiful than that one or even if it is beautiful or ugly in the first place.

    In fact, we can measure beauty. It’s our technology that cannot. But it doesn’t follow that because we cannot measure beauty it does not exist. That’s as absurd as the claims against subjectivists. (Isn’t it odd that we even have a name for people who use their senses? a name that often has negative connotations).

    As we dig deeper into the mystery of our great divide between subjectivists and objectivists it’s helpful to simply state the obvious. Technology has yet to catch up with our abilities. At least in some areas.

    Cables are among the hardest for measurementists to swallow, and for good reason. No existing measurement standard exists to explain audible differences in cables. That doesn’t necessarily follow that they do not exist.

    Galen Gareis, chief engineer at Belden Cables, is trying his best to bridge the gap between what we hear and what we measure. And while he has uncovered a great deal of measurement data explaining audible differences in cables, he has yet to invent a measurement system with metrics quantifying audible changes. I suspect it may be only a matter of time.

    Reply
19. May 28, 2021 at 9:17 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    New Approaches To Audio Measurement…Or, some measurements that matter – and why some don’t!
    https://www.nordost.com/downloads/NewApproachesToAudioMeasurement.pdf

    Reply
20. May 28, 2021 at 9:20 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.elandcables.com/the-cable-lab/faqs/faq-what-is-capacitance
    When a voltage signal is transmitted through a twisted pair or coaxial type cable, a charge builds up across the insulation between the conductors. The charge that builds up in the cable over a period of time is due to the inherent capacitance this results in a delay causing interference in the signal transmission.

    https://www.hca.hitachi-cable.com/products/medical/faq/answers/whats-is-capacitance.php
    What causes cable capacitance?
    It is the result of a body coming in contact with an electric charge and a load that results in a closed circuit. The charges carrying current in conductors make capacitance between each other as well as other nearby objects.

    Reply
21. May 28, 2021 at 9:20 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Audio-Transformers-Chapter.pdf

    Reply
22. May 28, 2021 at 9:22 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Ask The Applications Engineer-25: Op Amps Driving Capacitive Loads
    https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/ask-the-applications-engineer-25.html

    Amplifiers and capacitive loads
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/63546-amplifiers-and-capacitive-loads

    Reply
23. May 28, 2021 at 10:39 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/any-technical-minds-know-about-cable-capacitance.18550/

    https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/why-is-high-capacitance-good

    In itself, high capacitance in a speaker cable is not good. And with some amplifier designs, especially marginal ones, it can lead to poor sound, oscillations, or even damage, unless a Zobel Network is used to compensate.

    However, high capacitance can be a side effect of designing the cable to have ultra-low inductance. Low inductance being likely to improve the neutrality of the cable, everything else being equal, although lowering it beyond a certain point will be unnecessary overkill.

    High capacitance can also be the intended result of designing the cable to have extremely low characteristic impedance, characteristic impedance being approximately equal to the (square root of (inductance per unit length divided by capacitance per unit length)).

    Some speaker cables are marketed based on the theory that their characteristic impedance should approximately match the speaker’s impedance. Although I don’t question that those cables can and do provide excellent performance in many systems, imho that theory makes little sense, and imho that theory is not what accounts for their performance.

    RF transmission line effects, including characteristic impedance and vswr/reflection effects due to impedance mismatches, become significant when the length of the cable becomes a “significant” fraction of the wavelength of the signal (which is inversely proportional to frequency).

    What is “significant” is a matter of degree, of course, and depends on the particular application, and for audio it would seem appropriate to define tolerances more tightly than for most other applications.

    But to provide some perspective, the wavelength of a 20,000Hz signal propagating through a wire is in the rough vicinity of 6 miles. The wavelength of a 20Hz signal propagating through a wire is in the rough vicinity of 6,000 miles. The length of a typical speaker cable would certainly seem to be utterly insignificant in relation to those numbers.

    The long-wave radio band is commonly thought of as beginning at around 150kHz, so it might be reasonable to consider some point between say 50 and 150kHz as a conservatively drawn point of demarcation between rf and ultrasonic frequencies.

    Reply
24. May 28, 2021 at 10:43 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaker_wire

    To justify claims of enhanced audio quality, many marketers of high-end speaker cables cite electrical properties such as skin effect, characteristic impedance or resonance; properties which are generally little understood by consumers. None of these have any measurable effect at audio frequencies, though each matters at radio frequencies.

    An accepted guideline is that the wire resistance should not exceed 5% of the entire circuit. For a given material, resistance is a function of length and thickness (specifically of the ratio of length to cross-sectional area). For this reason, lower impedance speakers require lower resistance speaker wire.[4] Longer cable runs need to be even thicker.[15] Once the 5% guideline is met, thicker wire will not provide any improvement.[4]

    Roger Russell – a former engineer and speaker designer for McIntosh Labs – details how expensive speaker wire brand marketing misinforms consumers in his online essay called Speaker Wire – A History. He writes, “The industry has now reached the point where [wire] resistance and listening quality are not the issues any more, although listening claims may still be made…The strategy in selling these products is, in part, to appeal to those who are looking to impress others with something unique and expensive.”[4]

    Reply
25. May 28, 2021 at 11:39 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    AES E-Library
    Audio Cable Distortion is Not a Myth!
    https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=13662

    Specialist audio cables are often sold to the consumer on the basis of eyebrow-raising claims for technical performance, though to date no repeatable test has shown any effect more surprising than mild frequency-selective attenuation. However, because the loudspeaker load is typically nonlinear and causes harmonic currents to flow, finite impedance in an audio cable does indeed cause harmonic voltages to appear across the loudspeaker. This distortion term is similar to, or even greater than, that produced by the amplifier’s intrinsic nonlinearity.

    Reply
26. May 28, 2021 at 11:42 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Where does the noise or distortion come from when using unbalanced cables in audio?
    https://www.quora.com/Where-does-the-noise-or-distortion-come-from-when-using-unbalanced-cables-in-audio

    Unbalanced connections are possibly the very worst piece of cheapskatery in audio and have done us no end of harm. The RCA phono plug should be binned and never seen again. Quite why the audio industry has ignored standard studio practice for 40 years or more is beyond me.

    The two main problems with single ended connections are that you can’t have a decent shielding regime and that your signal’s voltage reference keeps moving around. It may be called “ground” but you can be absolutely sure it is never at ground. If you have an integrated amplifier pushing out 2A RMS to a speaker then that current has to find its way to ground. If it’s doing that through a cable with 0.2 ohms resistance then your ground is going to be bouncing around at 0.4V RMS, or a little over 1/2 a volt each way. That is likely to be larger than the signal coming into the amplifier. This happens for every current path making its way to ground. Even if you have a ground plane none of the points on it are going to be at the same potential. And star grounds can be even worse – not least because you may have more than one box.

    The hope is (was) that you carry your reference to the receiving bit of equipment with the shielding. But since that has a finite resistance, and will be carrying current because the ground voltage at each end will not be the same, the reference voltage never gets there intact. This problem has given rise to an absurd industry of specialist cables selling at up to £1000 a meter, which still don’t get over the problem. And on the way from one box to another the shielding picks up all sorts of muck from today’s heavily polluted EMI environment. Though it may be outside the audio band it will still get to excite the transistor junctions and, as Martin Colloms put it, “will run around your circuitry like water”. Even a fairly ordinary transistor can have a Ft of 100 MHz.

    All this can be solved by sending your reference voltage along another wire inside a decent shield. That voltage can be something close to 0V or it can be a signal of opposite polarity. It doesn’t matter because what you are going to do is look at the difference between the two. (Having the opposite signal on the other wire will give you a better signal to noise ratio but it isn’t a requirement .)

    Getting a decent shielding regime isn’t easy, even with balanced connections. But it’s nearly impossible without. We know this from the dreaded “ground loop” and the hum it induces. There are all sorts of capacitances between the boxes and their contents, including between transformer windings and the casework

    The comparatively recent (though very incomplete) adoption of balanced connections in consumer audio brings with it higher line levels, so there is less need for high levels of amplification which always brings the noise floor up with it. We are still nowhere near studio levels of 12V but it’s a step in the right direction. To answer your question of where the noise comes from, it’s partially from low level signals being amplified. Every bit of circuitry has its own noise floor which, combined with the EMI soup and the other ingredients above, gets amplified by the same amount as the signal.

    There are some circumstances where audio wiring is susceptible to picking up noise or interference created by various sources. Long lines (from a stage to a sound booth, say), weak signals (from a microphone, say), and electrically noisy environments (like a theater or other venue where all sorts of other powerful equipment is operating, say), to name some.

    IF those conditions apply, THEN using balanced connections can have some benefit. Balanced connections work by running two conductors next to each other, and arranging the gear at both ends so that any signal from some outside source (i.e. noise or interference) is picked up equally by both conductors and “cancels” itself out, while the wanted signal, being different in the two wires (current goes up one while going down in the other) does not cancel.

    For more ordinary circumstances — any domestic audio system — the electrical environment is pretty quiet and the leads are fairly short, so balanced wiring doesn’t offer any real advantage.

    Note that to gain any advantage from a balanced setup, not only must the cables carrying the signals be balanced, but so must the input and output circuitry in the source and destination gear. Spending money on balanced wiring when the amps and so on don’t support it is just pointless.

    In UNBALANCED cables there is 2 wires; one carries the signal the other is the ground (reference) HERE is where the ground wire also acts like an antenna, picking up noise… these noises are antennaed in from available sources like electrical cords and wiring and radio transmissions and such, power cables are the most likely source, which is usually a humming sound type of sound. It is best to keep the unbalanced cables as short as possible and away from these potential creators of distortions and interference.

    Reply
27. May 28, 2021 at 5:25 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    AudioQuest Tour, Part II: Making An Invisible Cable
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G8oFCAnXqYE&feature=youtu.be

    Reply
28. May 28, 2021 at 5:52 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.avforums.com/articles/a-last-helping-of-snake-oil-modern-hifi-and-the-impact-of-accessories.15607

    Reply
29. May 28, 2021 at 5:54 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor

    Reply
30. May 28, 2021 at 5:55 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    AUDIO MYTH – “DAMPING FACTOR ISN’T MUCH OF A FACTOR”
    https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-damping-factor-isnt-much-of-a-factor

    Reply
31. May 28, 2021 at 5:55 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.psaudio.com/ps-how/how-to-find-and-fix-hum-extended/

    Reply
32. May 28, 2021 at 5:56 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.psaudio.com/ps-how/how-to-find-and-fix-hum/

    Reply
33. May 28, 2021 at 5:57 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker.htm

    Reply
34. May 28, 2021 at 6:02 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.avforums.com/articles/a-last-helping-of-snake-oil-modern-hifi-and-the-impact-of-accessories.15607

    https://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/diy-speaker-cable-faceoff

    Reply
35. May 28, 2021 at 7:44 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.entreq.com/products/ground-boxes-17667704

    Reply
36. May 28, 2021 at 7:54 pm

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://6moons.com/audioreviews/schumann2/revisited.html

    Reply
37. May 29, 2021 at 3:46 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Performance is not a cost issue. Being guided by relative cost is a standard approach to selling.

    Reply
38. May 29, 2021 at 3:47 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Well, I don’t buy cheap junk cables. But I also won’t buy the expensive ones either.

    Reply
39. May 29, 2021 at 3:53 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    the law of diminishing returns applies.

    the sound that comes out is subjective. There is no “perfect” reproduction.
    An anechoic chamber will give guidance but the ultimate test is in a home.
    Some prefer valve amps, some, Class XYZ. Speakers ABC etc.

    Audio nirvana is elusive.
    Take care.

    But then again, there is the listening taste. Someone likes mellow mids, another likes beefy bass, someone else likes shouting highs…

    The effect of cable capacitance on a low amplitude signal with high source impedance like that of a passive guitar indicates essentially nothing about the behavior of line level equipment. Apples and oranges.

    We all talk about distortion ( what a cable does to the signal, is distortion ). You are talking about tuning a music instrument with the usage of that distortion in order to achieve a personal sound, but we are talking about the degradation of the sounding of an audio system caused by bad quality cables ( not necessarily related to their price… ).

    Reply
40. May 29, 2021 at 4:01 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    From https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYAudio/permalink/4202013486531132/

    And people wonder why “Hi-Fi” is dying off… Tell the average person who can barely afford rent that they need cables that cost as much as their speakers, if not more… watch them flock to the hobby! /s

    I feel like the cable debate is like the gatekeeper for audiophilia, and is used to dissuade people from wanting to get into the hobby. Wouldn’t want any newcomers who don’t subscribe to the dogma! /s

    Personally, I think the vast majority of the folks that post about “cables” are just doing it to create a little low IQ chaos – it’s easily verifiable to prove they make no discernible difference

    Nobody can identify cables in a true double blind test scenario

    I thought we debunked that with the AC mains cable debacle. Electrons are electrons. They don’t care how expensive the wire is, nor what circuits they’re going through. They just want to move. Give them more space, they’ll get where they need to go (literally, at the speed of light).

    Electricity is electricity. This conversation has been beat to death, what you’re paying for when you buy a “nicer” cable is simply the build quality, not the sound.

    frequently, not even build quality, just the very best snake oil.

    Biggest con job in audio history

    Cable believer = fuckwit

    OMG, why not buy $63,000 speaker cables? You’re never going to hear the difference between a $150 wire and $20 wire or a fucking coat hanger for that matter! This is a joke! If you have an ultra hi end system sure you can afford and should buy decent cable, but the law of diminishing returns always applies. This guys system looks like an integrated McIntosh tube amp 100 – 150 watts per with BW tiny book shelves playing compressed music files off his laptop…..no way he or anyone hears a difference!

    But did you notice the green glow around the tubes? Green leds improve the sound stage, if the glow was blue it would improve the stereo image. White light will produce sizzling crispy highs. And red, red is the best, for it brings out the warmth.

    Best I can deduce on this debate is quality concerns are mostly a function of signal loss and shielding. So to put the analogy into guitar land, hi vs low impediance. Balanced signals are somewhat similar, in my mind at least, to low impediance signals. I don’t feel guilty running a 50′ cable running EMGs to my first pedal and probably wouldn’t even swap cables tracking with an EMG. But if I had a passive pickup, I would probably use the shortest cable I could. So back to balanced cables. Given they are routinely OK’d to run long distances, I’m less worried about the marginal returns from whatever better manufacturing strategy one cable maker has over another when most of that is mitigated by the design of balanced cabling. And obviously with digital, it’s even easier, because in most cases you’re either sending signal or you’re not. Not to mention I dislike a lot of modern recording for a lack of “weight” (not to be confused with bass) so I have no qualms about sending an unbalanced signal into a transformer and out balanced into my patchbay. I’m super anal, but when it comes to worrying about cable quality I try to have a reasonable level of concern here, and going Mogami everything etc, IDK, I gotta have some room left to enjoy life and be creative. Oh and hi Bruce and thanks for your contributions to the world of guitar players! Put another way, I see this as people worrying about a 5′ vs 10′ cable plugging into their first pedal. It’s a concern, but not something they should be overly worried about.

    Reply
41. May 29, 2021 at 4:03 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYAudio/permalink/4202988119767002/

    First successes
    - no fire
    - no smoke
    - no sparks
    - nothing stinks
    - I’m alive

    SAFETY FIRST

    Reply
42. May 31, 2021 at 10:18 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    True, but it is a power cable, it is electrical energy not acoustic energy traveling through it.

    I think the reason why there’s a big debate on cables (be it interconnects, speaker cable or power cable) is that – not everyone has revealing or refined speakers to be able to tell the difference. I used to be a cable skeptic myself until I decided to take the dive and buy myself an expensive cable. So to set the records straight – YES cables can make a dramatic difference from a generic cheap counterpart – IF and ONLY IF your system is (especially your speakers) of high enough quality and refinement to be able to take advantage of the difference.

    I’m not sure the audio quality of YouTube is good enough to hear subtle differences in recordings. https://youtu.be/FURPQI3VW58

    Power cables do make a difference. Some hifi systems are most sensitive than others.

    No need to believe when doing a scientific experiment.
    What you needed is a spectrum analyser. Same room, same song, different power cables, same room noise level and a mic with the same cable and then check the Fourier transform of the measured sound! This is for the “audiophiles”.
    For engineers and scientists, it is good enough to measure the power cable property, resistant or impedance. I believe they will not need to do the measurement. It is because they already know the physics.

    The differences are 60dB or more down from program, difficult to isolate because of acoustic and circuit noises but yes if the ear can hear it in the room measurement gear will do so too.
    And typical FFT is too course to be useful.

    It’s when the volume is turned up and the current has it in shortage, you can then hear the difference! only you play at higher volume for demanding music at loud point.
    Some notes do not come in right, dimming or blurring up with no seperation.
    But if the cable is already good, there is no better cables or best cable! It is just that when there was a really bad cable, or too many branch out of power usage from one power supply point .. ( a power conditioner that has also the stand-by storage of 3000watts solve the problem… i applied and guessed it did fix it well. )

    To me the power cable and conditioner are like water filter. The kilometres of water pipes that run to you house had probably not been changed for more than 10 years. So based on some theory that the power cable from power plant is not audio grade anyway power conditioning products are useless, no point installing water filter.

    Power is still power, it’s there in the cable, just got contaminated along the way. So the “last mile delivery” is pretty important, that’s my belief.

    All power cords will have a different affect on different kind of equipment this demonstrates nothing please do not take the word of these uneducated people,this is a ridiculous comparison in this space with these low-fi electronics,AC current coming out of the wall in is house can also effect the outcome,hear for yourself with your equipment not his ,this is a infantile comparison at best

    Check this out: Do Audiophile Power Cables Make A Difference? – YouTube
    Pay close attention to the part about testing and you will see the bs going on here.

    you need to make blind test

    Ac power cords make no difference use the right gauge OEM UL rated ac power cord from the manufacture that came from the amplifier or av receiver.Spend your money on better speakers and amplifier that actually make a real difference.The oil is think with these guys on YouTube

    I’ll believe it when I see the measurements. I mostly hear reflections in your room. Acoustic panels will make a bigger difference than any power cord…

    Send a few power cords into AudioScienceReview. So they can be tested by a actual engineer like Amir with proper equipment. I know he has a few already just a matter of time until they get tested… and debunked. Human hearing in these situations is very unreliable and you haven’t done anything to prove what your hearing is the cable or psyco acoustics. You can listen to the same system over and over and hear different things. Your also aware of the test which voids it all.

    I noticed a bigger difference upgrading my wall outlet. Regardless to what cable you use, you’re still plugging it into a $1.50 wall outlet. I use PS Audio outlets and many of their power cords. But I do believe any well made cable will do. The difference was like removing a blanket from my speakers. The difference was surprisingly audible.

    There is really no room for debate as to whether cables of any variety produce an audible difference, so long as reliable contact is being made. Setting aside the low level explanation, this question can be answered definitively by conducting a null test. In said test, the outputs of two signal chains are taken, with one of them inverted and then summed to the other. This results in all commonalities between the two signals being cancelled out, leaving only the differences. The same principle can be applied in order to definitively compare many other components such as DACs and amplifiers, with SWDT being the procedure utilized for the latter.

    Null tests have been employed in this manner for decades and no matter the cable tested, the result is always silence, which means that no differences exist to be heard. The power of marketing, confirmation bias and placebo, coupled with knowledge of the amount of money spent should not be underestimated.

    Reply
43. May 31, 2021 at 10:19 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Gary Conway
    2 viikkoa sitten
    Mogami W3104 cable is speaker cable, not power cable. Power cable has insulation rated for a specific voltage. Mogami Pureline V3 Power Cable is rated for 250 volts but I would not use speaker cable for power cable and it is probably dangerous to do this.

    Come on guys, the cables from the energy power plant to your home are certainly not “professional audio grade”! They might even be good cables up to the power transformers near your area, but unless you know for sure that the cables IN your walls, behind the wall sockets are “professional audio grade”, you are just lacking common sense by thinking that a 1000$ last meter of power cord from the socket to your amp will improve the sound in a humanly perceptible way.

    It’s a different story if you use a power processor, something to clean and stabilize the current and THEN you use such expensive cables after that point. But otherwise this is seriously the peak of snake oil commerce.

    If anybody is upgrading their “Power Cable”, then they are either bored, have money to burn, or both.

    Or they can hear a difference

    Reply
44. May 31, 2021 at 10:20 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Jay Victor, Cable Designer – Clarus Cable
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8v4JlAuRsE

    Reply
45. May 31, 2021 at 10:22 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Construct your own Audiophile Power Cable from £15 (no soldering)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfVYfC6tmcc

    A quick tutorial on how to construct your own Audiophile Power Lead for as little as £15. I walk you through the process, step by step. It it a lot simpler than you may realise and a worthwhile upgrade from using the generic, freebie IEC cable you get with your equipment.

    How to assemble a power cable – Neotech NC-P303 and NEP-3200
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNkCQe_K5FY

    Reply
46. May 31, 2021 at 11:04 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Audioquest NEW Power Cables Customer Demonstration Niagara 1000 @ Bristol HiFi Show 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_bJTMD5_aI

    In this video I am in the Audioquest room where a customer is having a power cable demonstration of the new powers cables from Audioquest with their Niagara 1000 power conditioner.

    I and the customer asked to hear different cables so we get to hear the difference between the older cables and the new NRG Y3, the new Monsoon and the near top end Hurricane.

    Video comments:

    Couldn’t notice any difference, maybe in person. One of the best upgrades for me was the power cables. Even affordable cables made an improvement in my system.

    Love the AB at the end, I was flicking through the video before I got to it! The difference is so notable from a harshness perspective, it’s so much smoother with the better cables which will only make longer listening sessions that much better.

    Bottom line, dear public, if you can hear a difference between any power cable of say 12 gauge or over, then the problem is with your amplifier’s power supply being poorly filtered along with the human rationalizing process that spending a lot of money makes this sound better. This is snake oil. Invest in better basics especially speakers. Interconnect cables are a different matter but they too reach a point of inperceptable difference at a very low price point. Talk to an engineer for answers.

    The only difference I hear is that they changed the volume between cables. That’s how they’re tricking you into believing that there’s a difference. There IS, the volume.

    Tesla Talk Then you must be deaf as they even said that the volume was not kept at a constant. It’s deaf people like you that get ripped off by fake cable companies because you actually can’t hear due to a hearing impairment. Each time they swapped cables do you not see him adjusting the volume? Even more to the point, do you not hear the volume difference???

    msee No, I came here to set people straight as some of you don’t seem to know the difference. The old hackneyed saying, “a fool and his money are soon parted.” Perhaps you’re the type of person who just moves on when he sees a predator prey on unsuspecting people but not me. When I see something, I say something. It’s called being a decent human being.

    no difference what so ever. ive just ordered up some kimberkable at £ 100 for 2 x 3m lengths and i bet it sounds just as good..

    No-brainer. Increased dynamic range resulting from lower noise floor. Better attack and decay, increased ambience. Excellent demo.

    Definitely a cleaner sound with audioquest cables a cheaper alternative would be to externally ground your system this is more logical and would be more beneficial than £2500 on a conditioner and powercord. A quick fix doesn’t repair the root cause.

    you can’t just earth the system legally everywhere in the world. It would certainly be prohibited at my place of living. I must have a professional coming and installing the earth for me. And that would cost much more than a couple of cables from audioquest or others making similar products

    I can ground it, but it will come to a cost. I can’t have a system that is partially grounded. I will have to use thousands to get my electric system grounded.

    Actually it is more sad when people are allowed to do what they want with their electrical system. Fires get started in electrical systems. And people gets killed in the shower because earthing has been done wrong. It is not sad, but it costs money.

    I live in Norway. And here it is prohibited to do work on all permanent electrical installations unless you have license to do it. So most people need to have electricians to do work on their electrical systems.

    Great video!! I felt the salesman was more honest than I expected. He more or less admited that more expensive cable’s were for people with more money than sense. This has been my experience.. Not that I believe power chords make a difference, I am 100% sure they do! Placebo as a theory has been satisfactorily eliminated in my mind as the most expensive cable I bought I hated. People who suggest we are all brainwashed, and could all be in the head well that could be an argument in either direction could it not? I have found that 90 to 95% of improvement to be had can be had for a few hundred quid or even lower, after this point I feel the differences are small or even sidesteps at times.

    It’s of course a very easy put down , but for those like me with relative poor hearing who would. struggle to hear any difference , I just wish I could .and for those that can it really comes down to preferential taste and the ability to pay for what some regard as snake oil . Its very wrong to judge others who can afford to lavish well over a grand on a cable , and smacks of jealousy , personally I would. rather have better ears than better cables , some. choices in life cannot be made , this makes buying a cable an easy one for those lucky enough to be able to.

    As nothing on the mains side can change sound quality at all there is little point in comparing mains stuff.

    Any changes were not due to anything on the mains. The cables were blinged up, not technically improved or different. You don’t need to shield mains cables, you screen the interconnects.

    Do the AB testing with scientific equipment,to see if there is something going on.

    How much does a $1000 cable cost to make? $10 maybe? Hahahaha with 20 of those CABLES you can easily buy a car! Even if they do make a tiny difference in sound quality, you are still getting ripped off. I bet if someone took me to Abbey Road studios they won’t have expensive power cables. So maybe the “differences” some are hearing aren’t really there.

    Audio system designers are so naive of electricity entering their systems that they can have their designs significantly improved by changing a wire. OK, next bottle of oil, please…

    That is crazy

    ive been to live a/b/c comparisons. the differences are staggering. i genuinely feel sorry for those who cant hear the differences.
    that said…the compression thru youtube makes the sonic improvements barely perceptible.

    Please don’t feel sorry for me I have saved alot money knowing my system sounds just fine without these power cords. Oh, I sat through this demo at the Bristol HiFi show this year, no difference whatsoever. Enjoy your setup

    its funny actually. i both feel sorry for you….and am jealous of you.
    if i were unable to hear the difference…..it wouldve saved me $$$$.
    best wishes.

    @googoo gjoob well pleased you get a benefit from these products. I trained in audio, TV and video electronic engineering. I always blind test to prove a result. We actually did this and no one person could ever pick out the supposed better cable test on test. Did you just install your cables and say that’s better or did you successfully not knowing pick out your more expensive power cable – speaker cables etc..?

    Those cables are a fair bit of pish. Don’t get me wrong though you don’t want a crap cable but worry about that and hay why not also worry about the cable to the socket. Get a sparky to wire a 10mm radial in from the consumer unit? Would you do that? Probably make better difference over a higher length of run than those over priced plug and flex. Where do you stop? Definitely at paying for over priced plug and flex I’d say!

    You would think the amp companies would be the first to sell you better power cables right? Just wondering.

    Cable design is completely different than designing amplifier. It’s not strange that they are separate entities usually. It takes lot of effort to design good cables. PS audio is a company design power cables. But they use Audioquest cables in their reference system simply because Audioquest cables performance is better than their own cables.

    Why are you changing the volume between the cables? The volume should remain the same. Right now, the only thing you’ve proven is that you’ve set the volume different between the cables and that’s why we hear a difference.

    He was shutting the amp off I think to make the cable changes so he had to turn it on from standby and set the volume level back to where it was or check that it was correct

    I realize that he has to reset the volume after a power shutdown but the volume was not reset back to the same level. The volume in this video has definitely been tampered with. If you want to show people the truth about whether or not power cables actually make a difference, do an honest recording and don’t fiddle with the volume.

    Better, but there’s no difference between the two that I can hear which is what I expected once you compare apple to apple. You should delete the other demo 1 video as it’s misleading.

    To those that doubt these products like cables and power conditioners do not improve or makes no difference… I feel sorry for you that you can’t enjoy the music to the level of those that can hear the difference. There’s too many people that hear a difference and they have no vested interest or skin in the game for me to believe it’s coincidence or a conspiracy. People do not want to spend money for no reason. I have bought power cables that I felt added an improvement in the sound so I think it does work. Is it worth it? I wish the products were cheaper though.

    Well you enjoy your system knowing you have spent the extra money on power cables, so it must be better. I have tested myself on loan from a specialist dealer speaker cable. Now I tested with my hifi friends by swapping the cables without them knowing what was being used. The silver line cable approx 10 times the price of my OFC speaker cable. The results, no one person correctly identified the better cable test on test. Have you tried this method or did you just install the power cord and say to yourself, that’s definitely better? Interested to know. This is because you feel sorry for someone like me who cannot hear the difference
    power conditioners are a valid product.

    I had a ringing in my tube amp. I replaced with power cable. Tried both an Audioquest and a Shunyata, and both worked in that I do not hear the ringing anymore. Also, the background noise is much quieter, and the music seems to lift from a black background if that makes sense. Tried several generic power cables before buying the expensive ones with no difference.

    interesting result. Not sure exactly what happened there. If it cured the issue then good for you. Sadly, I sat in this demo, myself and others in the room did not hear any difference. This video on you tube shows someone agreeing he hears a difference in one particular demo over the three days. I wonder what the results ratio would have been if counted

    I’m glad it worked. I didn’t want to spend money, so tried all the power cables at home with no luck. Whatever electrical interference or noise was largely gone with the the cables I purchased. It was too obvious and noticeable to believe it was imagined. Usually, I think cables in general make marginal if any improvement, but are not worth the money. In this case, I’m happy with the result.

    that is a good result. Glad you got it sorted. Now you can get back to enjoying the music. Good talking

    If it makes a difference or not really comes much down to the quality of the speakers and other electronics too. It is no point using a fortune on cables if you have a budget system.

    With any demo like this people assume that something is going on but the guy doing the demo was definitely making sure about the setting on the amp could we possibly listening to a better version as we couldn’t really see what was going on .
    People are always going to argue about this kind of demo my personal view is if you believe in what the cables are doing then buy them , but between the cables he used can you really justify the price difference , come on £1500 for a cable even when the guy said the price he looked away

    Youtube’s audio compression makes it very difficult to hear differences in audio sources period. It would be like comparing two paintings by looking at them through dirty glass If you think you hear differences between cables, then most likely the video’s audio soundtrack is being manipulated in ways to give you just that impression.

    The problem here is that YouTube compresses sound, and no matter what quality system you have (how “revealing”), every single one of these sounds identical to the original one using stock “freeby” power cord and basic power strip. This is a matter of fact issue with trying to make the comparison over the Internet. IF there is an audibly discernable difference between the free and the £1500 power cord including the benefits of the Niagara 1000 power tree, it is simply impossible to hear it here on YouTube.

    That is NOT contributing to the benefit side of the situation since many (most?) people consider this snake oil.

    I have an extremely revealing system with 160 watts per main channel into high quality (and pricey) MartinLogan speakers that I can “A/B” with my older Klipsch horn-based fronts, and as much as I try, the first example and the last one are indistinguishable no matter what volume or speakers I use.

    My thoughts are that this particular area of expense expands to meet the pocketbook of those of us who can afford to drop coin at any level into our hobby. I use 10AWG speaker cables and yes, there ARE “oxygen free”. I have tried every kind of ‘advanced’ speaker wire including solid silver and at best, some of them actually are horrible compared to the basic stranded OFC speaker wire that costs under $1/£1/1€ per foot or roughly 2,5€/£2.5 per meter. Nothing sounds better than properly terminated basic copper wire. Maybe this is the difference? Many people don’t have the best banana plugs on both ends of their speaker cables, but I invest $2/£2/2€ per connector on them. I feel it is the best way to spend my money. If I were driving 1000 watts per channel into my speakers it might matter? How many of us have that at home? “The chosen few”, and as far as I care, they spend what they want anyway, so AudioQuest is as good a place as any to divest your money – for them.

    I prefer to waste a few bucks on bi-amp for my system, but I just opened another can of worms…

    Maybe try listening on a better playback system – in saying that I can hear the difference via my phone speakers but I have monitored the videos during the recording and making process so the differences are in grained into my mind. I think they are very easily audible .

    attended the Hifi show in Bristol. I sat in this demo and there was no difference between any of the cable swaps. Suggestion and perception were what was on offer. As I have said before I would like to see the demo where we hear the track, have the cable swapped and so on. Then at the end take the results from the listeners. The demo I sat in the guy was very fair. Asking us what did we think. Again, if it makes you happy and you feel there is a difference spend your money. For me this just backed up the need not to buy power cords. Enjoy

    That is a surprise because you can hear the difference in my recordings quite easily and clearly which is a diluted version of the original event ?? If you cant hear it dont spend the money on it.

    As I said blind change the cables , pick out the winner. You either do or don’t need to spend. Considering on this demo the speaker cable used was thousands of pounds. I was hoping for something but nothing changed. Would like to do the blind challenge with you as you say you can hear the difference. You up for me swapping cables one day and you picking out the audible winner? Not sure where in the UK you are based.

    By very definition the “placebo effect” is as follows: a beneficial effect produced by a placebo drug or treatment, which cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient’s belief in that treatment.

    It is not a stretch to generalize that beyond simply drugs. If you think it will sound better, then you are predisposed to that eventuality.

    you alter the characteristics of the amp with different cables as the cables demand different inductance characteristic. they sound different in my opinion. Not really better…

    Stranglely they always use subjective test… never a proper lab conductivity setup with proper benchamrks… i really wonder why… maybe because it s just a load of bullshit….

    the hissing from all the snakes gathering is so loud I can’t hear a difference……

    Cable does make difference. But they are not worth that much. Invest on speaker amplifier and room treatment.

    if you think there is a difference then there is no difference .

    The mains power cable doesn’t matter. Speaker, AUX, HDMI, and Optical cables can make a difference though.

    Reply
47. May 31, 2021 at 11:17 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    The mains power cable doesn’t matter as much those are claimed to matter, maybe nothing at all in most cases.

    Speaker cable can matter negatively if you are using something what is very thin. Use some decently thick cable and it will work OK.
    On the interconnection cables (AUX) there can be difference. The main difference is the cable capacitance and shielding. The cable capacitance between preamp and amp interconnection is the main contributor, and it’s effect can vary in 1:100 or more with the same cable depending on the characteristics of your preamp output. With LP record player connection there is usually a “sweet spot” of cable capacitance which is right for your specific magnetic pickup needle that makes it sound bright (wiring value can make it sound too dark or bright).

    HDMI, and Optical cables don’t make a any slight differences to video or audio. They are digital technology that transfers data either correctly, not at all or in some rare cases works for some time and sound/video starts to break down very noticeably.

    Reply
48. May 31, 2021 at 11:50 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Cable capacitance: a small demonstration of the effects
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lccYyTLMB9k

    A small video about the so called “cable capacitance”.

    Everywhere where copper or metal cables with 2 or more wires inside (be it the “mantle” and the central wire, say: coax cable) are used to transport signals (be it audio or HF) there is “cable capacitance” that presses down e.g. possibilities to transport audio frequencies over (very) long wires, say: 20 KHz-500 KHz, say over kilometers of 2 pole wires.

    Or: even a 1 pole wire, when the other signal transport wire is immersed in the “ground”, so “the earth” is used as “wire”, shows that property.

    Such a solution (1 wire earthed) also has a cable capacitance that influences its performance.

    But of course the “cable capacitance problem” was already properly solved in the 1950’s by cable (telephone) companies like General Electric (US) and others, and also by Philips (Netherlands) with their sophisticated systems of “line telephony,” where hundreds of telephone users could use only one telephone line, by the use of “pupin” coils, electronic circuits that “fractioned” (in a circular way=switched in a sequence) the line use via (say) a 50 KHz mode, using line amplifiers etc.

    This video only demonstrates the effect of cable capacitance. Everyone can conclude what kind of effects this capacitance can have.

    In general: for audio and telephone applications a damping of the high frequencies in the audio band (say: 10 KHz – 20 KHz).

    By the way: the issue of coax cables in HF applications (radio transmitters and radio receivers) is an essential other issue, not discussed here.

    I don’t know much about the use of coax cables, apart of the things that everyone knows: how to use and apply them and split them with the help of resistors to TV receivers, SAT receivers, in a household etc, keeping their impedance (often) on “75 Ohm”.

    This video (thus) is only about (stray) capacitance between 2 electrodes in a wire.

    Reply
49. May 31, 2021 at 11:53 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    What does a crappy digital audio cable actually sound like?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJ0Wr58AHE

    It took over 100 feet of cheap RCA cables from my junk box, but I finally discovered what a poor-quality coaxial digital audio cable does (or doesn’t) sound like — and it’s not like what companies attempting to sell you expensive digital audio cables might lead you to believe.

    Video comments:

    I agree with you: Bits are bits and crappy coax cables probably work just as well as the ones that are a hundred dollars.

    For those that don’t understand the principles of basic electronics, audio components are mysterious magic boxes and mysterious magic cables can seem alluring. Once you understand Ohm’s law, the basics of digital and analog sound and how resistors, caps, tubes and transistors work, the mystery disappears along with (hopefully) the tendency to fall for magical marketing claims. I consider myself an audiophile and there are “bad, good, better” cables, but the differentiator is construction quality which affects durability and the likelihood of failure.

    Very interesting video. Now do the same with TOSlink…
    Edit: For a better sound quality there even exist TOSlink cables with gold “contacts”… The irony…

    Fortunately I don’t think too many people are fooled by that, because the sockets that a TOSLink cable plug into are made of plastic!

    There are even people that think that gold plated connectors on HDMI cables make a difference to the sound and / or image.

    Like, what would the gold “Contacts” even do on an optical cable?

    @sobolanul96 as far as I can remember, the contact resistance is lower though. A contact will always have resistance, which depends at the size, pressure and material.
    Gold contacts are indeed better than copper ones In many ways (that is why you find many applications of them).
    However for most digital signals its crap. The contact can drop a significant voltage (up to ~2V) with a 5V signal and the receiver can still correctly interpret the signal. That is why gold-plated USBs for example at computer peripherals are BS. As Vwestlife mentioned in his video “bits are bits”. The inductance/capacitance of the wire which can delay a signal partially are far more critical.

    Reply
50. May 31, 2021 at 11:58 am

    Tomi Engdahl says:

    Do Expensive Guitar Cables REALLY Sound Better? – Let’s Find Out!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkp5AuCZHIo

    Today I test guitar cables ranging from $10 – $250!
    Do you think there will be a difference? Take a listen to find out!

    Comments:

    You dont need a super expensive cable but avoid ultra cheap ones.

    I’ve been playing electric guitar for over 50 years. I’m lucky I can hear anything now. Any cable sounds good now.

    Cables are like wine: $3 bottles make you sick, but $830 bottles make you poor
    And a 10 euro bottle would be fine !

    I honestly extremely appreciate a shootout like this. We are all about strings, amps, guitars, and woods that cables are usually not consider as much, so it is definitely helpful to learn more about their importance. Cheers for this one man!

    $250 Transit Lab DPA (Don’t Pay Anymore) Cable..

    I always make my own (HAND MADE) with Neutrik ends and Mogami Bulk Cable.. Never had an issue after many years.. It is the way to go..

    Could hear the difference with the Fender,
    The rest were too close to call through my headphones.

    In a mix, you would never hear the difference. You may want to use them in a Recording Studio, but that is probably the only place they would make an audible difference?

    Cable capacitance is dependent on length. So were all the cables the same length ? Also, it would have been great if you unscrewed each connector to show the differences in construction of the core, insulation, and shielding – it would be good to know where these differences are coming from, especially for people who might want to make their own cables.

    Could have done a waveform analysis (if this was DI) just to confirm the low end stuff and all that

    The most critical issue are the quality of the (double!) shielding, the thickness of the signal wire (which determines among other factors the electrical behavior and therefore the tone) and the craftmanship – meaning the quality of solderings/crimping/insulation at the connectors and the cable reliefs. The point where the cable meets the connectors cable reliefs are the most stressed ones. A 250$ cable where you cannot even repair a potential wire break due to factory sealing of the entire connector is not worth the money. I would also expect to get some information about the electrical characteristics for a high-end cable. Due to the capacity increase with longer cables the impact on tone can be massive on passive guitars.

    It a fact that cables with different insulators can sound different as the capacitance of the insulator reduces the bandwidth of a cable. In addition the type of shielding and geometry of the shielding makes a difference on the noise pickup. Also, the number of conductors in a cable the geometry of the conductors the metal purity and the metal type can make a difference. You have just found some of these differences.

    I usually make my own. Canare cable and Switchcraft ends. Switchcraft is the only brand I have never had to tarnish over the years. They are the best hands down. I have had one cable short in 40 years and that was because I kept pulling it out of my volume pedal by the cord.

    The difference is down to the capacitance of the cable, it’ll affect the resonant peak of the pickups.

    yup… the Transitlabs has a higher capacitance and causes loss of high end but leaves the lower frequencies relatively untouched… ending up with a warmer bassier sound…
    @quik ie22 and noisier signal.

    What was so amazing about the Transit Labs cable @9:11 is that it not only best reduced the high-frequency buzz, but it also virtually *eliminated the low-frequency hum* which was equally present and bad in all of the other three cables.

    Tight, open, boomy, more clarity, smooth, full, flabby, milky, glassy, and etc are not measurable qualities and are terms that demand double blind evaluation. If there is a true sound difference, there has to be a way to measure something that can quantify that difference.

    I like neutrik connectors, particularly the ones with the auto cutoff switch, it makes for easy instrument changes without having to remember to stand on the tuner.

    Reply